silly question alert!

[Cazzmags]

Hi everyone :)

Sorry if the answer to this seems obvious but if birth parents already have children removed permanently (care order in place, court done and dusted etc) are any further babies that may be born to those parents automatically removed at birth?

Thanks.x

No, it's never automatic. There would definitely be an assessment by social workers and this would be quite intense, there would be clear expectations about what the couple needed to do to keep their child and what risks were present etc, but ultimately it would be a different situation and therefore would need a new assessment which could easily have a different outcome if the parents have changed/risks have reduced.

Hi Cazzmags - I agree with mungojerrie's post. There would be a pre birth case conference and much would depend on the current sitation and another assessment a care plan made. However I think the chances of the same birthparents keep a baby where other children have been removed would be quite slim. Haven't heard from you for a while and wondered how thigs were going NNx

Hi, I know of a fair few who have been allowed to keep new babies after having multiple children removed... All have eventually been removed but one stayed (and suffered) for 18months!! A judge said if mum does all the courses etc she may be able to keep the next one in a couple of years after having many removed!!!! :( x

I'm working/ have worked with a few families who have had children removed and now keeping their latest ones. All have made significant changes ( changed partners seems to be a common one ) and been reassessed.

Thank you all for your comments. I think in the case we're involved with reassessment is unlikely as the court case involving the permanent removal of our fc was very recent and the birth mother is already pregnant again. I have spoken to a professional involved with the case since my original post and they are of the opinion it is almost certain the baby will be removed at birth. It just makes me feel so sad, it's like a never ending circle of tragedy for everyone concerned :(

NanaNina, will pm you asap....things have been quite hectic here of late!

Yes a baby can be removed at birth as the wording of the Children Act states that a child can only be removed if they are "suffering significant harm" or are likely to suffer significant harm" and this clause is to cover cases where other children have been removed and there has been no change for the better in the circumstances of the birth parents. Otherwise the baby would have to be left with the mother and sws waiting for the child to be "suffering significant harm" before removal.

However matters have to be handled very carefully. There was a case a year or so ago where the nurses knew that the SSD were going to court to request an EPO (Emergency Protection Order) on the baby, so that they could remove her from hospital, and the nurse took the baby from the mother and put her in another room. This caused quite a rumpus (as it should really) because no one can remove a baby (not a social worker or nurse) without an EPO and to do so without this Order is unlawful. Police can remove a child who they believe to be suffering significant harm (called a Police Protection Order) but it only lasts for 72 hours and then the LA woud have to apply for an EPO and then get the matter before the court before the EPO runs out in 7 days.