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Fostering

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on fostering.

Worth a watch on Thursday maybe?

12 replies

BusterTheDonk · 01/11/2011 10:45

Thursday ITV 19:30 - "A Failing System" - a tonight special on the adoption system

Brew
OP posts:
NanaNina · 01/11/2011 17:32

Thanks for that BtheD. I had caught something on the news that Cameron was saying that adoptions should be completed within 12 months, as presently the time on average is 2 yrs 7 mths which on the face of it looks very bad. The trouble is that so much evidence has to be given to the court and not just from the socwrk, but the psychologist, psychiatrist (if necessary) GP.,Child's Guardian etc etc. All of this takes time and the parents have to be assessed, and sometimes given the opportunity of a 12 week stay in a family centre so that their child care can be supervised/observed. This legislation was written by Parliament and the Judge has to apply it to each case.

I am not saying that these things are unnecessary - quite the opposite but the trouble is there are insufficient social workers to carry out the necessary work. Some of the inner cities are running at 30/40% vacancy rates and you can't run a service on that basis. Also sick leave is very high with stress related illness. After Lord Laming's review after Victoria Climbie, he introduced (in his wisdom!) a system which means soc wrks spend around 70% of their available time in front of a computer screen. And who was it that got Laming involved - the govt of course. After the death of Kira Ishak in Birmingham, who did they get in again after the serious case review - Lord bloody Laming!

Now the Tories and LibDems are slashing away at budgets of all public services and that means fewer and fewer social workers, nurses, policeman, fireman, teachers etc etc. What he doesn't seem to realise is that you can't have it both ways - you can't make huge cuts in SSDs and then expect that the work will be expedited. He wants his penny and his bun!

Sorry BtheD went off on a bit of a rant really..............I'm just so fed up with this govt who are making the most disadvantaged people in society suffer for the greed of the bankers.

BusterTheDonk · 01/11/2011 18:48

rant away... I love your rants!! Grin

OP posts:
maypole1 · 01/11/2011 19:24

NanaNina sorry but for once I don't agree their always seems to be enough money and social workers to pander to the birth parents every need to asses and re assess

Their is enough money to fund contact workers for contact that never happens and

I have even had meetings about future meetings
Once a meeting was called because the parents wanted to know what kind of bubble bath we use (and I am not joking)

They alway seem to have time for these things

Why cant Parents can be assessed soon after the children come into care
My fc has been with us for nearly 2 and a half years
NanaNina the court Papers were not filed till this may Shock

Any good sw worth their salt can work out pretty quickly weather the parents are trying hard and willing to co operate

Also I do think the court also need time scales and looked after children should always trump custody battles What ever the pain of a marriage breakup which ever parent they

The barr is set to high for Foster carers and adopters to low for birth parents

Mr NEary said is best sometimes we try to hard with families

sorry I just feel so strong about this

NanaNina · 01/11/2011 22:06

Maypole I know it looks as though sws "pander" to parents but that isn't really the case. The law requires social workers to work "in partnership" with service users, and that includes birth parents. All social workers know that they must be able to prove to the court that they have done all in their power to attempt reunification between the child and birth parents. This is the reason for the lengthy assessments of birth parents. It is the same with contact - they have to prove that they have given the birth parent every opportunity to have contact with their children.

Birth parents are represented by their own lawyer in court (which is fair enough) but these lawyers will pick on anything they think will make the judge think that the social workers haven't been fair to the birth parents. They will cross exam the sws (and anyone else supporting the recommendation for a Care Order or Parenting Order) for hours on end and this is why it is so important that social workers can prove that they have acted fairly and given opportunities for contact to take place on a regular basis. Believe me most social workers feel much the same as foster carers do about contact.

The important thing is that the LA get the Care Order or Placement Order. If the judge thinks that there are other things that the sw should do, he will not make the Order. This is very unusual because sws know what they have to prove and lawyers acting for the LA also know this and they have to be satisfied that the sws can evidence what they are saying about the parents in their reports.

You say it should be easy for sws to work out whether parents are trying hard and willing to co-operate. The duty of the social worker is to keep families together where ever possible, and thus a lot of time goes into supporting the family (quite often for too long - as was the case with baby P) but again the sw will have to prove to the court that sufficient support was given to prevent the child being removed. There are just so many hurdles to jump through.

Once the child has been removed, the parents still have to be given the chance to prove that they can change and so the sw has to give them the opportunity to change and learn to parent their children in a safe way. Sometimes this means parents and children being admitted to a Family Centre where they live with their child and are supervised and sometimes this can be for as long as 3 months.

Once it has been decided that there is sufficient evidence to make an application for a Care/Placement Order, then there are numerous reports to be filed in court, from all the professionals involved in the case. I do agree with you that for a child to be in foster care for 2.5 yrs before reports are filed is just far too long. It could be because of lack of experienced social workers, as this is usually the reason for drift.

You mention care proceedings coming before custody battles. The thing is care proceedings are public law and custody battles are private law and I can assure you that public law cases do take priority.

I agree that social workers try too hard and too long to support families, rather than come to the conclusion that the child needs to be removed. However they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. There are many who think that social workers "snatch children" too early and then their is criticism if social workers don't remove the child quickly enough as with baby P.

I do know how frustrating it is for foster carers Maypole and I think social workers should explain more clearly to f-cs why the things that they have to do to be sure they can satisfy the court that the Care/Placement Order is granted at the final hearing.

I understand why you feel so strongly as leaving a child in limbo for over 2 years is not an acceptable state of affairs.

maypole1 · 01/11/2011 22:53

For me personally I think this is what mr camron needs to address is courts and making sure they know theirs a time frame to work in as well as the social works and that endless reports are not on

And in my view parents are given more than a fair chance just feel like they don't extend the same curtsey to adopters

scarlet5tyger · 04/11/2011 19:37

Did anyone watch this programme? I did, and wish I hadn't! I'm still angry at the assertion that all looked after children suffer dreadfully whilst in foster care - the children I've cared for over the years came to me in dreadful states and left me as healthy, well balanced little people. There would have been no chance of them being adopted had they not spent that time with me.

Of course it's shocking that there are approved adopters waiting for a "perfect match" (which I doubt exists) whilst the same children wait for a place, but as 1 in 4 adoptions fails I'd rather a bit of nit picking went on to at least try and stop this happening.

Another thing that wasn't mentioned is that the first two years of a child's life are the most crucial for it's development. It might be hugely controversial but a large part of me thinks that it's right for adoptions to take so long to allow a child who has been with carers from birth to finish their early stage development. On the other hand, I have a child who's been with me since birth and will shortly be going to adoption and I'm going to struggle parting with him after just 16 months... don't know that I'd be able to do it at all if he was here for 2 years. Which brings me on to....

How many LAs refuse to let their FC adopt??? I know so many FCs who've been turned down - yet it would push those adoption figures through the roof!

NanaNina · 04/11/2011 22:10

I haven't watched the programme yet but have it recorded. I am not surprised you are angry scarlet5 at the assertion that all LAC suffer dreadfully whilst in foster care. I am sure that children suffer who are passed from foster home to foster home and are never able to feel safe or settled, and sadly this does happen all too often, especially with older children.

I agree that the first 3 years ofa child's life are most crucial for his/her development (and sadly I think there are many social workers who don't realise that). I don't think I agree with the concept of "finishing their early stage development" - think children should be placed in an adoptive home as early as possible.

I think LAs refuse to let FCs adopt is because the birthparents will know the identity of the FCs and where they live, and which school the child attends etc. Really the adoptor's anonymity needs to be preserved. There was a case I recall when a foster carer did adopt the child she had cared for for 2 years, and the bp had been havign conact at the fc's home (this is what used to happen in the 80s) and the fc cum adoptor used to get followed round town sometimes while the bm and her mates used to say stuff about "baby stealers" etc and it was most unpleasant for the adoptor. They decided to move out of the area in the end as they (quite justifiably) didn't feel comfortable with the bm knowing where they lived and bumping into her in town etc.

If it is not a geographical concern, then there may be other reasons why there is not agreement to fcs adopting the child they are caring for. Clearly there is a big difference between short term fostering and adopting.

Just going to look at programme.

NanaNina · 04/11/2011 23:28

Have just watched the programme and I should think many a foster carer is feeling hopping mad at all the references to the damage that is done to children in the care system and they need to be moved to an adoptive home where they will be properly cared for! To be honest I don't think any of these prospective adoptors know exactly what the "care system" is - but the woman from Barnardoes should know and point out what a good job the majority of foster carers do,in caring for a child awaiting adoption.

She also annoyed me as she was pontificating about speeding up the adoption process (and I am certain that this does need to happen in many cases) but what she wasn't saying was that Barnardoes as a voluntary organisation recruit and prepare foster carers and adoptors, but then they have to "sell" their families to the LA, who cannot afford to "buy" the placements because of the slashing of their budgets. LAs will always look to their own adoptors first (ones approved by the LA) as this is the most cost effective way of moving a child to a suitable adoptive family. The 2nd most cost effective option is to "buy" a family from a another LA (called an inter-agency placment) as their fees are much lower than Barnardoes and other voluntary organisations.

Also Barnardoes workers have the luxury of having much more time to recruit, train and assess prospective foster carers and adoptors, because they don't have any statutory duties, as the LA do in child protection. I started a Teenage Placement Project in the mid 80's for placing teenagers who were in childrens homes in the area. I knew Barnardoes had run a similar scheme and went to talk to them. They said that their target was to recruit assess and approve 5 families per year. I was absolutely staggered, and there was a team of them working on the scheme. I single handedly (with admin support) recruited trained assessed and approved 28 families in 1 year. Sorry I'm not bragging but I am just trying to point out that Barnardoes workers and those of other voluntary organisations, have little idea of the volume of work the LA social worker has on his/her hands.

As for Cameron and his minister mockingly talking about changing the adoption process, I think that is just typical of politicians sticking their nose into things they don't understand. They were scoffing at the fact that previous partners have to be contacted, well there is a good reason for that. What if the ex wife says the bloke was violent to her, had a bad temper or whatever. I think every sw understands that some women will have an axe to grind, but an experienced worker will take this into consideration. And if the adoption assessment is to watered down and a child is murdered by the adoptive parent (and yes that does actually happen, sadly, very rarely, but I know of 2 cases in different parts of the country) guess who will be to blame - yes the social worker!!

Sorry I am ranting...............I just feel so frustrated. I am sure every foster carer caring for children on a so called "short term" basis knows that the sooner the child is moved to an adoptive family the better, but could do without hearing about the damage done to children in the care system.

maypole1 · 05/11/2011 09:27

Sorry Nana but again can't Agee with you

It has done emence harm for my fc to be in foster care the

Inability of me to be able to treat her the same as my own son has hurt her deeply-
Two quick examples my son was taken camping during the summer fc was not able to go sw would not allow fc to share a tent with either my self or my oh and is too young to sleep in tent alone

Son went to Dinsey world this year with my oh I stayed behind with fc as could not bare to put fc in respite was not able to get child a passport because simply the parent didn't want child to have one but fc cried for two days fc was distraught and thinks we didn't want her to go

How do you explain to a 6 year old her mother won't allow us to get a passport and won't give consent. You can't really can you

Another way I would say my fc has been damaged by living with us is the fact fc has been here so long she has been here from such a early age we are the only family fc remembers now fc is finally moving on fc is having attachment issues wetting the bed ECt fc is roundly rejecting dad whom fc is to live with screaming at the mention of fc going to live their.

One foster carer I know had a child for six years than informed her that they have finally found a adoptive home or the child, she had gaoled twice in trying to adopt him her self
So they would rather move a child from. Loving home were he's stable than push for the very person he calls mum to adopt him

If this system is not broken then I don't know what is
because it looks like something close to it to me

The constant flow of sw fc has had that each have different styles who want things done differently some who have been very firm with the parents some who have not.

For older children who have no chance of adoption and come into care at a older age foster care may be the best chance they have a as normal as possible at a stable life but how any one can thing that foster care is a good thing for a smaller child is beyond me.

In my view the reason why ss don't live having foster carers adopt is simply about numbers if you allow all your foster carers adopt you won't have any foster carers

maypole1 · 05/11/2011 09:39

I see the need for investigations to take place but really nanna some of these families have had ss involvement for years before the child is ever removed so how much longer to we really need.

scarlet5tyger their are a lot of black sw in my la and they are fiercely against interracial adoptions I had this conversation with my own support worker and i can tell you know from conversations we have had she would not be allowing any of her carers adopt inter racially

We were asked about concurrent fostering And were clearly told the only child we would be allowed would be a mixed raced child not a White or a black but mixed only.

Ad as a mixed couple I really did feel we would be able to take on either black, white or mixed
So I have no doubt in my mind this happens a lot because if we were approved as concurrent foster carers and their were no mixed raced children available it basically means we would not be given any children and would be left waiting

BusterTheDonk · 05/11/2011 12:38

Phew... glad it wasn't just us left reeling and annoyed at that programme. Both me & dh sat shouting at the tv and saying 'not true'.. 'we're offended by that' etc etc...

I just hate the term 'languishing in care'... I know I'm being sensitive but it makes it sound like foster carers 'don't do anything' when in fact I believe we have a much harder role to play than the adopters... I'm not saying adopters get 'the finished article' and have no problems, but I don't think they have a clue of the traumas we go through with the children...

For sure, kids CAN get damaged by being in care, my LO's mum is my prime example - rebounding between home and being in care so many times... SSD admit they let her down... but SOME kids benefit hugely by the love and security offered by their foster carers...

Also, I was quite suprised that adopters weren't more 'available nationwide' iyswim.. I'm aware there is a National Adoptors Register but surely it doesn't and perhaps shouldn't be a local adoption??

I wish this type of programme could be made on foster carers...

Ok.. feel better for ranting now.. will get down carefully of my high horse Grin

OP posts:
scarlet5tyger · 07/11/2011 19:35

Glad to read I wasn't getting angry on my own!! The babies I take are usually born addicted to drugs or alcohol so are MUCH improved by the time they leave and I was fuming at the assumption that an adoptive parent would be better than me - I do a fantastic and extremely difficult job even if I say so myself! (The government obviously aren't going to) - and I think most adoptive parents would run a mile from the screaming, poorly babies who arrive on my doorstep.

Buster, I think there were a few programmes on about foster carers a couple of years ago. They might be on You Tube? I think they were made from the child's perspective but I remember them being quite positive about foster carers.

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