Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fostering

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on fostering.

Court orders. Can SWs change contact orders made in court.

9 replies

psiloveyou · 18/04/2011 20:01

Hope someone can help.
I am having real problems. We have two dc who have been with us 18 months and due to stay long term. Their contact was decided in court last year. Since then the children have moved to the children in care team and the Sws in that team have made several changes to the contact order to suit themselves.
I can't say much for fear of outing myself but the birth family will not support the placement. Despite the contacts supposedly being supervised things are being said to the dc by family and older siblings which are really undermining the placement. Despite this the Sw has now decided the sibling contact should be unsupervised.
I have real fears that the SWs will allow unsupervised contact with all the family before long. I have already told them that if this happens it will cause the placement to break down. The dc did used to have unsupervised contact before the court order was made and it was a nightmare for them and us (if anyone can help I can give examples by PM but not on here).
I don't feel the SW is listening to me. She seems to think I am a complete PITA. I don't think it would be fair to the dc to carry on with a long term placement if it will break down in 2/3 years (also worried about my dc building a relationship only to have it fail).
Dh and I have just had a long talk about what to do. We haven't been to panel yet so LT placement is not official but the dc have been told they are staying here.
We really love these children and don't want them to go but we know that without the support of SWs and if contact is unsupervised it will fail.
My FPSW seems to feel I shouldn't be making waves. DH and I are not prepared to commit to this if we can't give the dc the best possible outcome.
I'm so sorry this is long and garbled. I'm so upset at the moment and really don't know what to do.

OP posts:
fostering · 18/04/2011 20:56

Get in touch with the gaurdian or get an independant advocate for the children from Dr Bardardo who can speak to the children and put their views across.

Send an email to the child's SW's team manager or service manager so you have a written record of your reasons for maintaining supervision during contact underlining that the placement will be under threat if the birth family have the opportunity to undermine further.

If the birth parents agree with the changes to contact that the SW is making I guess there is no reason for either party to return to court unless you ask the gaurdian to get involved.

Is your own SW supporting you? If so, get your own team manager or service manager to act on your behalf. Ask for a meeting so everyone can hear your point of view. If the placement breaks down and the LA has to use an IFA it will cost them dearly for a long term placement.

Good luck.

corsa100 · 18/04/2011 22:42

OP is the Guardian still involved with the children or has their case reached its conclusion? With the conclusion being they are to remain in long term care with you and your family?

psiloveyou · 18/04/2011 23:22

The guardian is not involved anymore. The court decision was long term foster care. We only said we would keep the dc 6 months after the court case when a long term placement had still not been found. We did make it clear that our keeping the dc was subject to contact not changing unless there was significant improvement in the contacts and attitude of the family towards us.
We had a meeting last week. During the meeting the carers of both older siblings admitted the children were saying some awful things about the younger children living with us. Both elder children have unsupervised contact with family.
Despite this it was then decided that the children would all have unsupervised contact at a relatives house.
I just feel that our opinion is being completely ignored and that it is only a matter of time before unsupervised contact with all the family is allowed.
We have decided to write a letter explaining our concerns.

This is a first for me I have always had a great relationship with the Sws I work with. But I really do care for these children and will fight for the best outcome for them. It's making me so angry that the SWs are putting themselves and the families demands before the needs of the children.

OP posts:
corsa100 · 18/04/2011 23:34

Has there been a Review since the decision was long term care, with the contact arrangements discussed within the Review meeting? If so you could speak to the IRO to discuss what is happening with the contact arrangements and outline your concerns.

Sometimes the IRO will challenge decisions made by SW's if the decision differs to the agreed plan.

You mention you have recently had a "meeting". I am not sure if this was a LAC Review meeting or a general meeting between FC, parents and SW.

NanaNina · 19/04/2011 21:39

PsIlove - I am assuming that the children are subject to a Care Order made in court last year, with a care plan of permanent fostering. Contact would not have been defined in court. As part of the care plan it would be said that the intention was for the children to maintain in direct contact with their birth parents and siblings. Much depends on the age of the children. If the children are of middle years (say 7 - 12) then contact would normally be quarterly, or x 6 per year to cover a contact at Christmas (not on Christmas day) on the birhday and to offer one contact during each school holiday. In my experience it woud be very unusual to allow unsupervised contact, given that there is a Care Order and the LA are in fact the corporate parent and if anything nasty happened during unsupervised contact they would be held to account.

What age are your children Ps? If you don't want to say please feel free to PM me. I can see why you are concerned. Taking Corsa's point, decisions about contact should be made at the LAC review. The thing is though that at every LAC review (which of course will continue on a 6 monthly basis) until these children are 18, contact is one of the issues that has to be considered, as to whether it should be increased, decreased or change of venue etc. The other thing that has to be considered in every review is whether the children can return home. I don't want to worry you because I have never known (in 30 years working as a sw and tm mgr for a LA) children who are permanently fostered returned to their parents, but it is there in the LAC review matters that need to be considered.

What normally happens (well at least in the LA where I worked) was that once a plan was made for permanent foster care, contact with parents was reduced, and as I said in the first para it depends a lot on the individual case, the age of the children, and whether this contact would be in their best interests.

In a sense the ball is in your court because as you say you have not yet been formally approved as long term carers. I think you should have a meeting with the social worker (his/her tm mgr) your link worker and yourselves to address your concerns. There are differing views on contact and judges will almost always agree with quarterly or x 6 per year, but on the basis of this being supervised. Social workers often try to appease the parents by offering more contact than is good for the children, and this needs to be challenged. Contact should be in line with the best interests of the children.

How long has it been since your LOs were removed from home, do they talk about their parents, does their behaviour change before and after contact (although in all honesty this is not at all unusual) but needs to be observed to inform decisions about future contact. I have to say though that even when contact is supervised it only takes a few seconds for birth parents to undermine the placement e.g. "they don't love you, they only want you for the money" - "play up with those foster parents so you can come home" etc etc and unsurprisingly this caused much confusion for the children.

I think the older children who are having unsupervised contact are admitting that their parents are saying negative things about the placement of your children (have I got that right) and is a most definite reason why your LOs should not have unsupervised contact, though you cannot stop parents whispering undermining things - I've heard of it so many times. Mostly children know instinctively where they are best off and don't take much notice.

SO press for that meeting and don't let them fob you off, and discuss your concerns. Make it clear that you are worried for the children (not that much against the nat parents - even if you are!) and be honest, saying that your concerns about contact don't seem to have been addressed and you are disatisfied. There is need for negotiation and compromise here and you may have to accept that contact is usually the case for children in permanent foster care, but the social workers in turn need to be taking your concerns seriously.

NanaNina · 19/04/2011 21:42

Sorry forgot to say - contact between siblings is almost always a good thing because it opens the way for a relationship with each other when they are young adults and no longer in the care system. Also children very often miss their sibs more than their parent.

psiloveyou · 19/04/2011 22:05

Thank you both of you. I am feeling much more positive today. I spoke to my FPSW today. She is lovely but she and the children's SW don't know this family very well. I have voiced my concerns with them several times but get the feeling they think I just don't like the family.
Today though I met up with my old FPSW who has an in depth knowledge of this family and worked closely with them. When I told her of my fears she was horrified. She has offered to contact the SWs and support my case. I am hoping that when they hear from another professional they will take my fears more seriously.

NanaNina I don't want to give too many details on here. I will pm you.

OP posts:
NanaNina · 20/04/2011 22:59

ps - I have your PM thanks and replied but then it wouldn't send. I have had trouble with answering PMs before and alerted MN to it, but they haven't been able to help. I thought it was because my replies were too long but this one wasn't.

Just some general info about contact with birth family in permanent placements. First and foremost it has to be evidenced that this contact is in the child's best interests. It is children who have a right to have contact with their birth family, NOT the other way around.

Glad to hear that your old FPSW who knows the family well is going to talk to the current workers. The only thing about that is she no longer has case responsibility and so it is diffificult to say how much she will be able to influence you current workers.

I still think you should press for that meeting and voice your concerns, and ask the sws to explain exactly how this contact is meeting the needs of the children and how it is in their best interests. Contact in permanency is usually to ensure that the children do not think the birth family have disappeared off the face of the earth. The essential thing in permanent placements is that the child/ren form secure attachments with the foster carers. I actually think that permanent foster carers should be present at contact with birth family, and the social worker of course. I say this because you are expected to treat these children like your own, and what good parent would send their child off for visits with people who are not a central part of their lives, and have not cared for them properly in the past.

I will try again to PM you Ps but have sons, dils, grand children all arriving tomorrow to stay for Easter so it may be next week before I get a chance to do any more MNetting.

psiloveyou · 21/04/2011 16:14

Thank you nananina great advice.

Have a lovely Easter weekend

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page