I'm so not pleased with myself

[daisydoofer]

I am hoping some of you experienced foster carers can empathise or else give me a kick up the butt!

I have been fostering for nearly 6 years and I took a placement last September (my third placement).

The child, aged 6, came from another foster carer when the placement broke down. The foster carer said she could not cope with the child's behaviour. Suffice to say her behaviour was extremely challenging for such a little one. What is most apparent is she has no social skills whatsoever and children get fed up of her very quickly.

On placement she was also very demanding of attention and refused to allow me to interact with my own dd, or husband. This was a very hard time for all of us, though she is not so demanding now, though it took time and a great deal of patience to get there!

She is a very controlling and manipulative little girl (So sad that she has learnt to be like this). Although her behaviour has improved somewhat. She is attending contact with her parents as they are being assessed to have her returned to their care. LA have asked if we would take her on full time if the assessment of parents is not positive. We were considering it, given that her behaviour has improved and felt we may make a difference to her life.

My own 10 year old dd had two friends over to play today. LO constantly interuppted the older girls and began jumping on the girls, pulling at their clothes etc

I suggested the girls go to dd's room and I sat to play with LO, who sat for around 5 mins before running up and down the stairs, opening dd's door and generally trying to disrupt. She would stop at nothing! I tried all ways to divert her - even getting out ingredients to make cakes - but she was intent on causing mayhem in dd's friendships.

DD became very upset and I had no choice other than to take her friends home. This then led to DD telling me that her friends in school keep "having a go" at her because of LO's behaviour - usually because she is unkind towards their younger siblings. DD was extremely distraught and said she "hates" LO. I sat chatting to and cuddling DD when LO came into the room and thumped DD in the face. TBH I went a bit mad with her and shouted at her to get back to her room and called her "a nasty child" (and I am very ashamed to admit it).

However LO now tells me she hates me and wants to go back to her previous carer. And if I am perfectly honest I wish she would have her

This is the first time I have felt I want to give up fostering. Has anyone else been in a similar situation? Sorry for the long post. I have tried to make it as short as possible.

Daisy - what an awful time for you. I hope the lo is moving today and you can have some time for yourself and your dd.

((((((hugs))))))

Daisy ((((HUGS))))

You are probably feeling like your world has eneded this morning. I should hope that your SSW has resonded by now?

If for any reason SS plead ask you to keep the child a bit longer so they can "secure a perfect placement" tell them where to go.

Your own dd (bless her) is your priority now. Do not keep the FChild a minute longer! Your dd has already been physically damaged and no doubt she will be emotionally scarred. If you crumble and allow SS to cajole you into hanging on to the FChild your dd will believe she counts for nothing and you are putting the other childs needs over hers. You will end up with a very damaged dd.

I have to go to a meeting now. I will pm you this evening.

Hold your head up. You have done nothing wrong. Some children cannot function in a "normal" family situation, due to their past experiences. This seems like one of them.

Hugs to you and your dd
Fish
xx

Thinking of you and your family today, hope you're all OK. :)

Hi Daisy - have the social workers contacted you (I sincerely hope so)and have you been strong enough to put a strict time limit on this placement.

Incidentally I wonder if you asked why the last placement had broken down, because sometimes sws put a bit of a gloss on it, for obvious reasons. We always made sure that if a placement broke down (and they often did) exactly what had happened to disrupt the previous placement. I think it is so underhand if sws did not do this in your case.

Take care and sending you good wishes

Daisy I feel for you.

You were given a mismatched and very challenging placement. That is not your fault. You cared for the child for 6 months, despite the risks imposed to your own child. You were absolutely right to ask for the child to be removed, in the circumstances. You are not the first and you wont be the last foster carer to end a placement. And let's face it there is not a foster carer on this earth who would allow their own child to continue to be abused in this way.

I hope you and your dd are ok and that the foster child has moved by now. please come back and give us an update - when you are good and ready of course.

Daisy

It's the right decision to make - poor LO does need serious therapy if she is to make any significant progress, and she will probably do much better with a family who don't have to split time between two or more children

I am so sorry it is this way, but you have done the right thing - and you have done all you can do. You didn't hurt her, or cause this, you have tried so hard to do everything you can for her

I hope you and your DD feel a little better soon

Lilka xx

Thank you so much for your support. Update is LO moved yesterday. My Linkworker was very understanding, wanted to take LO to her new foster carer straight from school. At least I got my own way and we were able to at least say goodbye to her and give her a special leaving present. Packing her clothes and toys was the hardest thing I have ever had to do. Packing for two other children who went to their adoptive families was a doddle in comparison.

TBH I dont know how I feel. I feel that I have failed as a carer but yet I also feel relief that we can all relax in our own home. It does seem very quiet here. DD also has mixed emotions. She has asked me many times, "Will xxxxx be alright in her new family?"

My main concern is she was placed with a foster family who have a toddler and a (foster) baby in placement. Please God let nothing happen to those babies.

Nananina the info I was given before child was placed was that her previous foster carer was struggling with three foster children. LO's needs were not being met and she was lashing out at her (younger) foster siblings. Social Worker thought she would be fine with an elder foster sibling and that her development needs would be enhanced via natural interaction with an older, stable and confident role model.

Thank you everyone who have said I made the right decision. I think my fostering days are over.

Dear God ... if they knew she was lashing out as younger children what on earth are they doing putting her in a fc placement where there are babies?

I wonder what they've told the new fc.

You have done the right thing ... you have your own daughter to think of and she has to come first.

I just hope that SS have been more honest with the new fcs than they were with you. I suspect not!

WalesBlackbird. I also fear the same . I really fear for LO's future. If Social Services could get her the right placement her future could be bright. She is a smart kid. I really do feel for her. I wish things had turned out differently. It is so wrong to mess with a child's life. I completely understand that social services are struggling for foster carers but it seems she has gone from the frying pan into the fire. This LO needs a single female carer to give her 100% attention and committment so she can move forward in her life. I have said what I think to my Linkworker but my words have gone unheeded. I just pray they will find her the best placement soon. Thank you for your support xx

Hi Daisy - I'm glad that the little girl was moved, but as you say to place her with a toddler and a baby is just not the right thing. The trouble is, this carer was probably the only placement they had available and maybe not able to afford to buy an IFA placement that might have met the child's needs better. I don't think your thoughts about a single female carer without a placement might suit, went unheeded, it would be just that no such placement was available.

I think the sw was a little naieve when placing this child with you, to think that the child's developmental needs would be enhanced by an older girl in the family. Were it only that simple.

I really don't think you should feel so badly about this placement having to end, and I'm glad your link worker realised she had to act quickly. You say it is "wrong to mess with a child's life" - of course it is, but you haven't messed with her life, you have tried your hardest and it didn't work. I have seen endless placements that have disrupted for all sorts of reasons. LAC are by definition very damaged children to a greater or leser extent, and yes they do sadly get moved around foster homes but there is usually no option.

I always get annoyed when people criticise soc workrs for moving the child so many times, but thesepeople haveno understanding of the way inwhich the child's pre placement experiences have damaged them, and how that damage will manifest itself. The real culprits are the parents who caused the abuse/neglect in the first place, but then again we can't really blame them, because when you look at their history, they too were abused as children. I can honestly say I have never met an abusive parent who was not abused themselves as children. It's the cycle of deprivation that cannot be broken. Various politicians have thought they could break it, but it isn't possible. Well that's my view anyway.

Please don't give up fostering because of this incident. You know yourself how much foster carers are needed and you sound like such a grounded, caring foster carer, you would be depriving a lot of other children of your care if you gave up.

You may need a break to get over this little girl, but hope you pick yourself up, dust yourself off and continue to foster.

At the risk of being very controversial the thing that needs to be changed - and urgently - is the ethos that a child's best place is with his/her birth family. Quite clearly in an awful lot of instances that simply isn't the case. The only way to break the abusive cycle is to act quickly and get the child away from the abusive birth family asap.

I have two who were removed at birth and they are just oh so different to my other child who spent just 3 months with birth family. As if that wasn't traumatic enough for him he then had to endure ongoing contact until placement.

And that's all it took - that relatively short space of time. And that's why he is as he is. Knowing bf history why are they given so many chances to screw up again and again.

That's what needs to change. Tinkering at the edges ain't going to work. Legislation needs to change. Thinking needs to change. A child's best place is with a family who will love him, care for him, treat him as a human being and, mostly importantly, keep him safe from harm.

So .... easy peasy!!

I do really feel for this LO but the damage was done a long, long time ago. Shifting her from one unsuitable placement to another isn't going to be helpful. She needs a robust package of support and therapy NOW - while there is still a chance for her. Not when it's too late.

I know mine hs just had seconed contact in a row were mum didnt show up last time it was six months they had to pay her its the only way she would come to contact now the cuts are inplace the big boss had said they will no longer bribe people to see their own children.

But their still making us take lo every week incase mum turns up this is not good for the child but. No one seems to be listenig to us gurr

Well said Walesbird. Martin Narey (chief exec of Barnardoes) was saying exactly the same thing recently and crowds of MNs came rushing in, talking nonsense about social workers "snatching" children from decent parents to get them adopted etc etc. I did my best to explain the procedures in these cases and the expectations of the court but I gave up because at best it fell on stoney ground and at worst I got many many people rubbishy me and saying I thought soc workers could do no wrong etc etc etc.
I try to stay off the social worker bashing threads because I think it raises my blood pressure!

Maypole - it isn't that no one is listening to you, they should have explained that they have to prove at a final hearing that they have afforded every opportunity for the nat parents to have regular and frequent contact with their children. If they haven't they will be ripped apart by the lawyer for the parents and the judge may not grant the final order they SSD are seeking to secure the child's future. Most sws hate contact as much as foster carers do because it is so much hassle.

Again if SS do not provide finance for nat parents to travel to contact they will be strongly criticised and I know more than one case when the swes have been sent off with a flea in their ear from the judge, and made to start contact all over again, by providing finance. Cuts or not, I reckon nothing will change the expectation of the courts that nat parents are not prevented from seeing their children because of travel expenses.

I know it's a real bind when parents don't turn up, but at least this is all grist to the mill because sws have to keep records of how many contracts have been missed and this says a lot about the parent's committment, and will go against them in court.

OMG Daisy. Please tell me this placement is only until a suitable permanent placement is found?

Walesblackbird I agree wholeheartedly.

Nana, if only someone had snatched my middly from his bps sooner. Then maybe we wouldn't now be in the position where at the age of just 7 he is in a PRU and about to start lengthy, intensive therapy for attachment/early trauma issues. Thankfully funded by SS and without argument.

Now we just need to convince PRU that his difficulties are down to early trauma and not Aspergers. Although maybe with an Aspergers diagnosis he may well get more help and support than with a diagnosis of Developmental Trauma which so few people understand.

Fishtank - sadly the reality is that a suitable permanent placement for this child may take a significant length of time, and may never be found. The problem is the child has such severe behavioural problems due to her early trauma of abuse/neglect whatever. Unfortunately adoptors or permanent foster carers are very hard to find. Most adoptors want children under 5, under 3 if possible, but you can sometimes stretch them to under 5. However this child though only 6 has such a range of difficulties that it is difficult to see any potential adoptor or permanent foster carer taking her on..................but never say never. I remember a little boy with horrendous behavioural problems and the foster carer was really struggling, but he moved to a single carer with ateenage daughter on the basis of long term fostering and did very well.

Thing is this little girl need some help - NOW. The best thing is play therapy for a child of this age, as the therapist will alow the child to express her anger, frustration and fear in a safe way. It is however expensive and the LA won't pay.
They refer to CAMHS (Child & Adult mental health service) but this is rarely suitable for a child of this age.

It's a tragedy, not just for this child, but for hundreds of children in the country who are waiting for a permanent placement. Another reason why children should be removed much much earlier if the are going to be saved from abusing parents.

NanaNina. I totally agree. Been there, done that. Children's Services are a disgrace! I was kind of hoping it was only our LA where the quality of children's lives are being decided by a bunch of numpties. Sadly it seems not

NanaNina I would love to know more about play therapy. I am getting a 3 year old boy in a week who is quite disturbed. He has (apparently) insecure attachment problems and I would love to know if I could help him in any special way. xx

It's not surprising SS are struggling for foster carers when they put them in this position, tbh. You should have had so much more info from the start. And it sounds as if she's gone to another inappropriate placement. You did all you can. And when it is all in the past, your DD will know that you tried to help LO and she will know that you put her first when it went too far. I really don't think you could have done more. Poor, poor you. And poor LO, obviously. But you tried.

My two girls were removed far too late :(
Maybe things would have been different for them if they had been removed sooner - especially DD2

Honestly, if this girl has an attachment disorder, then play therapy alone is unlikely to produce any serious improvements. The prognosis for AD is so poor :( Play therapy is great for some kids, but I know personally or know of several children who have AD, and they have all needed specialist attachment therapists, and therapies like DDP to make serious progres (and some of them haven't made any). One had music based psychotherapy which helped.

DD1 had play therapy, but all she did was get angry and refused to engage. What has turned her life around (she has complex PTSD) was EMDR therapy

There is 'Theraplay' activities which are designed to promote bonding between carer/child (it's different to play therapy). Mine love activities like that - basically, an activity that involves laughing and eye contact is helpful. e.g. take a little feather, try and blow it to each other so it sticks on the nose! If there is no therapy organised, then activities like that can be helpful - at least they brighten things up a bit :)

I have fostered children with attachment problems but they have all been little. When does any kind of help start? Does it begin when they dont manage well at school and foster placements break down? Rip, I have instinctively been doing lots of one to one play always aiming for eye contact. Glad to hear I am going in the right direction. I have had courses and read about attachment disorders but there is never much on how you can help apart from allowing them to act younger than their age.

Let's hear it for Nananina and Walesblackbird.

So very fed up of reading the background of placed children only to read that parents and grandparents were in care too along with countless incidents of drugs, alcohol, incest, prostitution, neglect and abuse.

How does anyone, joe public, social worker or a judge think that these children stand any chance of a secure stable childhood leading to an end of the cycle of deprivation?

mumsiepie - I think the majority of techniques that work come from the parents in the trenches as it were, although the theory is very interesting. My kids don't have attachment disorder, but two do have attachment difficulties and complex PTSD. Things that help the best are STRUCTURE x a thousand, consistency and nurture combined. Keeping to a routine, not backing down or applying rules inconsistently, and the nurture. They say let them act younger because they need to have that experience that they missed when they were babies - and part and parcel of that is eye contact, smiling and laughing. Its what most people (including you) do instinctively with little babies, but they probably haven't had that. So the attachment disordered child doesn't understand how a loving parent/child relationship works, they don't trust, and try to be in control of the adults, children of three and up can triangulate and play people off as well as any adult! -after all, they are the masters of survival at all costs

One of the best things I have seen was on TV a while back - it was a demonstration of a healthy 'secure attachment', what should happen if a baby is nurtured right. I thought it was pretty powerful and simple. The mum played with her little girl in her highchair, jingling her toys, smiling at her, being normal. The girl giggled back. Then mum got a signal from a person behind a door, and she just stopped. She stopped playing, smiling and laughing, and just stared blankly at her daughter - who immediately realised something was horribly wrong, and became really distressed and began howling. When mum got another signal, she began playing with her daughter agin, soothed her, smiled etc. The girl recovered, and slowly smiled back, and calmed right down. I wish i could remember where I saw it!!

That was a bit of a disordered ramble, but hopefully it will sort of make sense!

Only one of my three adopted children spent any time with bm - that was my son who has 'difficulties'. My other two are half sibs and were both removed at birth. Sometimes it's only with the benefit of hindsight (as a parent anyway) that you can tell that things weren't quite right. My eldest, placed at 5 months, was a terrible cling-on and never left my side at parties etc until he was 3.6 yrs. Then it all clicked into place.

My middly appeared to attach really quickly but would quite happily go off and play without a backward glance. Never, though, went to another adult - only me. His fc - a lovely person with whom we're still in contact - understands about attachment but still says there was something instant between us that she'd not seen before and has never seen since. An instant connection.

My daughter was probably the most balanced of the three. Happy to go off when comfortable, but always checked back - something middly never did.

My son starts Theraplay shortly along with re-parenting strategies for me and his father and some narrative lifestory work with very knowledgeable therapists - and thankfully all funded.

I've read a lot about Developmental Trauma (or complex PTS) by Bruce van der Kolk - and it ticks pretty much every box for my son.

Worth a google if you've not come across it yet.