I'm so not pleased with myself

[daisydoofer]

I am hoping some of you experienced foster carers can empathise or else give me a kick up the butt!

I have been fostering for nearly 6 years and I took a placement last September (my third placement).

The child, aged 6, came from another foster carer when the placement broke down. The foster carer said she could not cope with the child's behaviour. Suffice to say her behaviour was extremely challenging for such a little one. What is most apparent is she has no social skills whatsoever and children get fed up of her very quickly.

On placement she was also very demanding of attention and refused to allow me to interact with my own dd, or husband. This was a very hard time for all of us, though she is not so demanding now, though it took time and a great deal of patience to get there!

She is a very controlling and manipulative little girl (So sad that she has learnt to be like this). Although her behaviour has improved somewhat. She is attending contact with her parents as they are being assessed to have her returned to their care. LA have asked if we would take her on full time if the assessment of parents is not positive. We were considering it, given that her behaviour has improved and felt we may make a difference to her life.

My own 10 year old dd had two friends over to play today. LO constantly interuppted the older girls and began jumping on the girls, pulling at their clothes etc

I suggested the girls go to dd's room and I sat to play with LO, who sat for around 5 mins before running up and down the stairs, opening dd's door and generally trying to disrupt. She would stop at nothing! I tried all ways to divert her - even getting out ingredients to make cakes - but she was intent on causing mayhem in dd's friendships.

DD became very upset and I had no choice other than to take her friends home. This then led to DD telling me that her friends in school keep "having a go" at her because of LO's behaviour - usually because she is unkind towards their younger siblings. DD was extremely distraught and said she "hates" LO. I sat chatting to and cuddling DD when LO came into the room and thumped DD in the face. TBH I went a bit mad with her and shouted at her to get back to her room and called her "a nasty child" (and I am very ashamed to admit it).

However LO now tells me she hates me and wants to go back to her previous carer. And if I am perfectly honest I wish she would have her

This is the first time I have felt I want to give up fostering. Has anyone else been in a similar situation? Sorry for the long post. I have tried to make it as short as possible.

Have your social workers ever heard of Every Child Matters, do you think? Contact is supposed to be in the best interests of the child but too often it's used as a sop to stroppy birth parents when sws are too intimidated to put a stop to it. And before anyone says anything, yes I know it's not just up to sws and that the courts also have a say.

What you're doing is remarkable - my child is also 6 but has been with me since he was a baby. By that time though he'd suffered a huge amount of trauma and we still live with the consequences of that - along with the chaotic contact he was forced to endure until placement with us.

Do think long and hard about the longterm impact on your daughter and you, as a family. We've grown up with our son and the behaviours have appeared bit by bit and we've learned to cope as we go along.

There are so many diagnoses that can be thrown into the mix - but do make sure that SS are supportive of therapy (and are prepared to fund it).

I have been fostering for 20+ years. Social Services do not tell FC's the child's history and when I have moved children on to adopters I have been told not to divulge info to the adopters!

My own child had been abused by a foster child and LA deliberately did not inform me of the child's history because they knew I would not have taken the child on. Most LA FC's have children of their own and if they knew the risk it would impose on their own children they simply would not take them.

I moved to an IFA partly for this reason. At least with an IFA you know exactly what you are getting and it is up to the FC whether they want to take the placement. LA's pay big money to IFA's. This is why they try it on with their own LA carers first.

OP You have already made a difference to your FD's life. Ignore the ridiculous comments by people who live in their own bubble.

I think contact with parents is ongoing as part of the Court procedure. It is better for LA to go to Court with an assessment that says LA have made every effort to rehabilitate child with birth family but birth family do not show good enough parenting skills than for them to curtail contact and family opposing this by stating they have not been given a chance - if that makes sense?

This way it is hard on the child but at least she gets to move on with her life without her parents ASAP.

I would guess that by LA asking if you would consider taking the child long term they have already decided the child is not going back to her parents.

It is bloody hard taking on someone else's child but even harder when you have no idea what you are taking on. And people say Fostering is money for nothing? Meh!

I really hope the people that tried to knock what you have done for this little one are feeling seriously guilty now.

Keep up the good work OP

Fish tank - that's appalling. I thought there was a case a few years ago where a previously abused FC went on to abuse the child of the foster carers and SS were criticised for the lack of information provided? No idea of the name of the case, though.

There was a case a little ago in South Wales when a teenage foster child sexually abuse the couple's young daughter. SS don't always tell you everything - some information they hold is anecdotal and generally they don't share that with you.

As the legal parent you can request to see all the children's files - post adoption - but the letter has to be worded carefully.

Given where we are now it's something I'm considering doing.

Hi daisy - I haven't read every post but think I have the picture. have 25 years exp as a sw and tmgr for a fostering & adoption team for a LA (now retired)

Firstly I think you are doing a brilliant job with this child and please ignore posters saying "I feel sory for the child" - yes I'm sure we all feel sorry for the child but the thing is you are having to cope with this child on a day by day basis and coping with the effect it is having on your own children.

Someone has mentioned attachment disorder and I would agree that this child has insecure attachment with her parents (meaning she has been neglected/abused/her needs not met)and when this happens it can be something that can affect the child to a greater or lesser extent throughout her lifespan. She has learned that adults are not to be trusted. In these situations some children cut themselves off from adults and others (like this child)are hungry for attention and have a bottomless pit of need.

I feel quite annoyed with a soc work who would ask a short term carer coping with a difficult child if they would keep her long term if rehab home is not possible. This just isn't fair and has put you in a difficult position. The LA know they will really struggle to find this child an adoptive/permanent foster placemement and so think to solve the problem by asking you to keep the child.

This is not your problem. I am assuming you were assessed and approved as short term foster carer and it is just not on for sws to ask you to change your approval etc. There have been times when short term carers have requested to keep a child long term and obviously if all is going well, then we would accede to this request because of the carer's request, but we would re-assess the carer as a permanent foster carer for a specific child.

If this child does not return home then she will remain with you on a "short term" basis for ......
as long as you can cope, so it could become a long term placement by default.

I think you must not let your heart over rule your head here. I know it will be awful for this little girl to be moved again but you are not responsible for this. You have to think of yourselves and your family and unless everyone is totally committed to keeping the child (knowing that her behaviour may get worse rather than better, worst case scenario I know)you must tell the Sws that you are viewing this as a short term placement and if and when you can no longer cope then you must say so.

I agree with fishtankneeds cleaning - she is talking good sense.

Does your LA have a clinical psychologist who could help you to care for a child with attachment difficulties. Do the LA put on courses for deaing with attachment problems. Unfortunately love is not enough for an attachment disordered child. Their chronological age does not match their emotional age and they need to be re-parented in a sense and it takes a long time and a lot of endurance etc. with no guarantee at the end that it will improve matters. Sorry to sound pessimistic but I am merely trying to be realistic.

I think the symptoms of ASD, ADD and RAD overlap each other. And people will have different opinions on whether or not she has ASD, because the symptoms overlap, and they are hard to pick apart from each other in most cases. It's hard, but i wouldn't be surprised if you have assesments done and three people think three different things about her problems

I didn't know DD1's story before she was a teenager and she told me herself. I honestly found it so hard to keep listening to her, when I wanted to run off and be sick and cry. She is a stronger person than i am

Incidentaly, quite a few people thought she was unadoptable before I adopted her! She had one adoption disrupt, and her behaviors could be so difficult as she has complex PTSD as well as attachment difficulties. Added to that, she was 10 when they looked for adopters a second time

But she has done so well in her life! I know other foster carers and adopters will understand if i say that she passed all 4 GCSE's she took and that that meant the world to me, and that was an amzing achievement, as is her holding down a steady shop job for over 7 years!! I know it will be hard for her as she is to the point if she wanted promotion she would be fighting against people with A levels or degrees. But for now she is very happy. She is married!! He was the first man she managed to properly interact with in all her years with me. I hope that brings some hope to you. It can be done. Raising my kids is the hardest thing ever, but the rewards when they do achieve and progress, even if only a little, is immense. It's a bumpy ride for sure!

And you are very strong to have cared for her this far, through everything. Don't doubt that and ignore the malicious as much as their words hurt. You have done more than most would have, and the effects of a stable home will be there in her :)

Nana Nina Thank you for your post and very helpful advice. Yes we are short term foster carers. Everything you have said is true. I have said from the outset that our 6 year old's development stage seems to be that of an 18 month old. She tells me every 5 mins that she loves me and I have alwasy responded with "I love you too. We are so lucky that you came to live with us" or words to that effect - the frightening thing is she will tell a complete stranger that she loves them too. She obviously needs someone to love her.

I understand what you are saying about not letting my heart rule my head. We are going to see how things pan out before making a decision either way.

Fishtank You are so right in what you said. I also think LA's try it on with their carers before moving a child to IFA placements. It is so wrong that vital info is not given before child is placed. I can see LA reasons for doing it though. If they had told me about LO's history and high level of needs I would not have taken her. My dd also has a right to be protected and given attention. I hope I am not coming across as making LO feel second best, as someone stated. I would never do that. I just think that my own dd has a right to be considered when we are asked to take a placement that may put her physical and emotional needs in jeopardy.

The problem now is we have warmed to LO and really do not want to give up on her. We are well aware of how needy she is. I hate the fact that children are moved from placement to placement but I can now see why this happens. I am in no way saying it is right but I wish there was a better system of matching children with foster families to minimise the number of placements they have to go through.

LO proudly showed me a pocketful of things she had "nicked" from school today. She has lots of toys, that she does not bother with except to wreck, but loves to nick someone else's - whatever tat it might be

RipVan.

Thank you for your post. You and your dd must be so proud! Well done to you both!

Did you foster her before adopting?

No, I wasn't her foster carer. I wanted to adopt an older child, heard about her, and felt some connection to her - I can't explain it, it was just there

Rip You are one brave lady to take on an unknown 10 year old. I take my hat off to you. Your dd is one lucky girl! (Apart from her past obviously )

I take your point about the diagnisis of children with ADHD, ASD and Attachment disorders. Our LO displays symptoms of all three but all three disorders are so similar. I wish Social Services would get the parents contact out the way so they can start providing LO with some proffessional help, so we can all see what we are dealing with and look at the best way forward.

The thing is Daisy Soc Svrcs can't "get the parents contact out of the way" because they have to be able to prove at the final hearing that they have afforded the parents regualar and frequent contact. It is also the legal position - it is enshrined in the Children Act 1989 that sws must promote contact between a child and their parents. A lawyer acting for the birth parents would make mincemeat of a sw who had not promoted contact. The judge too would have a lot to say about that. A lot of sws hate contact as much as many foster carers, and know that it is more confusing for the child than anything.

I hate to be pessimistic about the LA providing "professional help" for this child. The truth is that there is often nothing on offer. Some LAs have a clinical psychologist who will help parents cope with damaged children, but if not, they will usually make a referral to CAMHS (Children & Adult mental health service) but in my experience they are not very effective. Young children need play therapy but it costs too much and LAs cannot afford to pay for it.

I would press the LA to say what help they can offer to help with this damaged child and yourselves.

Nana nina. Wise words and I agree with everything you have said. I asked my Linkworker this morning about some proffessional support for LO and ourselves. She laughed! . Then she said SS would think about CAHMS only when the child is settled in a forever placement - wherever that may be.

I am stunned today TBH. Took LO for contact with her parents and little sis (3) as usual. She came home with photographs of two older boys. It turns out they are her brothers! I had no idea she even had brothers!!

I called her Social Worker to clarify and she said LO has been having contact only with little sister because parents had asked for both the girls to be returned to them. Now they are asking for all 4 children! So LO now has to have contact with birth parents who have abused her, little sis and two brothers whom, it seems, she has never met! Oh joy!!!!

My first placement came to an end last week at my request, because of the behaviour of the 5yr old LO towards by 10yr DD, and other things.

I'm very sad, have feelings of guilt, shame and feeling that I'm contributing to the disruption in their little lives. But my LA have been very supportive, and have made me feel better about the situation. The situation is not of my doing is it? They are not in care because of me are they? While they were with me, they were loved, praised, well thought of, well cared for, given new experiences etc etc. At the end of the day, fostering is meant to help children, and this placement was not good for my DD.
Foster children have now moved on to carers from an IFA with no other children living with them, so I truly believe thing with improve for the little boy.

Hi Daisy - I would ask the Sws what else they haven't told you as they have a duty to give you full information, not having 2 brothers pop up that you knew nothing about.

This business of waiting till children are settled before referral to CAMHS is a nonsense. It's like saying we'll wait for the tooth to stop aching before we see a dentist! They use it as a stalling tactic, but to be honest CAMHS is not the answer to this child's problems.

In fact there is no "professional" help (apart from play therapy) that will help this child really. SSD have already accepted the child has an attachment disorder (and most children have because of their experiences of abuse/neglect from birth parents) which means they have learned that adults are not to be trusted. She cannot share you with anyone because she is so so needy and is fearful of anything standing in the way of you and her. Sorry I know you are only too well aware of this.

Does your LA put on training courses about attachment disorder - if not , why not, because it is the one thing that is common to the vast majority of LAC,usually the problem being insecure attachments with the birth parents (child's needs not attended to from birth usually)

The thing is that attachment disordered children can be helped to learn to trust adults to care for them and the world is not such a scarey place, but only by a great deal of time, energy and motivation by the foster or adoptive carer. It would take too long to go into it here, but if you look on Amazon and type in "attachment disorder" dozens of books will come up and some videos and even a course on attachment theory. Similarily if you look on BAAF website and click on attachment, there will be numerous books. Needless to say the LA should pay for these things as they can be around £25 per book.

The first thing is to understand the whole issue of trauma and loss and attachment disorder and how the child is affected, but more importantly what the family can do to help to change the child's view of the world. This has to be done in the home where the child is living not seeing a CAMHS worker once ever couple of weeks. I am not saying you are the carers who should do it, but I would have a talk to the child' sw and your link worker about training for foster carers on attachment theory.

I honestly think this damaged child is going to cause too many problems in your household. She clearly resents your daughter, unsurprisingly as she sees her as a rival, and your husband too.

As sensationsmad says, you are not responsible for this little girl's past and ensuing difficulties.
I hate to tell you this but it is extremely unlikley that a permanent foster placement will be found for her and children often move from placement to placement. She may do well with a single female carer where there is no competition, or with a family whose children are young adults.

A clinical psychologist in the LA where I used to work wrote a brilliant handbook about helping foster carers parent an attachment disordered child, but I just can't think of her name. However do have a look at what is available and ask the sws to pay for it. They should actually have something on this issue because they will get quarterly journals from BAAF and there is sure to be one on attachment disorders.

Take care and please don't beat yourself up over this child. I have seen families broken up by these kind of placements. No matter what, your own family must come first.

Thank you all for your support. I am sat here with a large vodka and a bucketful of tears as I write this.

My day began at 4am when LO woke and made such a racket had to bring her downstairs before she woke dd - who came home from school yesterday in tears. It seems she is so tired - because of LO's sleep pattern - that she cannot concentrate in school and her teacher kept her in at playtime and told her off for not listening. teacher said he knows she is very capable of doing the work he has set and blamed dd for "silly mistakes". I went into school with dd this morning to explain our position to teacher.

I collected LO from school at 3pm only to be spoken to by headteacher as LO had bitten a little boys face and pulled a handful of hair from a little girl's head in two seperate incidents today.

As I was preparing dinner I left dd laying on the sofa watching TV. LO was playing with her dolls house. LO asked if she could wach a dvd and I told her she would have to wait as dd was already watching her programme. LO returned to the lounge. Next came a scream. LO had picked up her child sized wooden chair and struck LO across the face with the chair. Blood everywhere! Took dd to casualty. She needed 7 stitches across the top of her eye. She has bruising down the side of her face, a fat lip and a loose front tooth.

I have called EDT this evening and asked them to ask my linkworker to call me urgently. As yet she has not called. I now know I cannot put my dd through this any longer. I am going to ask my linkworker to move LO tomorrow.

Sensations thank you for your post. I have done my absolute best with LO. And deep down I believe she will be better off placed with foster carers who have no other children. I do not think she is ever going to be able to share her caregivers affections. I feel my dd is my priority and it is simply not fair to put her through this. As another poster has said dd needs a home where she feels safe and secure. She has lived in a battlefield for 6 months and me and hubby are not prepared for this to go on.

As foster carers there is only so much we can do. As you say it is not our fault these children are in care and given that she now has to get to know her brothers witha view to all the children being rehabilited with their parents things are going to get worse.

I am just hoping the move is not going to take forever because they dont have a foster carer with no own children or no children already placed. I am sticking to my guns and LO needs to be out of here ASAP for her benefit as well as ours.

Nananina do you have any advice as to how I can ensure the child is moved sooner rather than later? Our LA have a tendency to sit on things until everything has calmed down and the foster carer does not feel the need is so urgent.

You poor girl. And your dd. And your foster child. Big hugs to you all.

Daisydoofer, so sorry to hear this. I have a background in Social Work in child protection and fostering, and prior to that I worked with children with emotional and behavioural difficulties in boarding schools. I have been at home with my children though for last ten years! I really do think that you are right to end the placement. It's not fair on your dd. Very sad for the LO but it really doesn't sound like the right placement for her. It sounds like she needs one to one adult care. i would ring the emergency duty team and get someone round to see you now. They are able to find emergency placements, maybe a out of county placement, but yr dd needs to feel safe in her own home. A loose tooth and stiches is very serious.

I am writing this as a care leaver, with maximum empathy for your foster daughter.

You have done all you can. Your DD is not safe, and needs to be, just as much as LO does.

You sound like an amazing and caring foster parent, but your household is not right for this very needy little girl.

It will be traumatic and complicated, but sadly moving her elsewhere is the best thing in this situation.

I hope DD is ok, LO too, and I hope you and DH don't blame yourselves. You have done an excellent job, but sadly your family and her needs simply aren't compatible.

Go easy on yourself. :)

Daisy - so very sorry about what has happened. I honestly was worried that the child's behaviour towards your dd (her big rival)would escalate.

As for when the child is moved, you must state when the child has to go (I would say by tomorrow or at the very latest by Monday) It is not your responsibility about placement vacancies - that is the LA's problem. You must stick to your guns and not allow the LA to "sit on things" - your daughter has been seriously injured, and is being emotionally harmed too.

You will have to be strong and get hold of your link worker first thing tomorrow (if not the child's sw - if not the duty team) and state that you want the child moved on Friday (or if you feel you can cope till Monday) at the very latest.

The sws may start to talk about not having a placement or could you "hold on" until they can find a suitable placement etc etc - you must not be swayed by any of this and stick to your guns, giving an absolute deadline - Friday preferably or at the very latest Monday.

Any social worker with any kind of understanding of what foster carers go through with these damaged children, should not try to persuade you to struggle on, but if they try, be assertive and don't get into any discussion about respite or any other kind of help they will put in, repeat your deadline. You can say it is regrettable but you cannot risk any more physical or emotional harm to your daughter.

Oh Daisy, I am so sorry this has happened and you are absolutely right. This placement isn't in anyone's best interests. It's not right for your daughter and it's not right for LO either. You are not responsible for her problems - the damage was done long before she was placed with you. You are just firefighting.

What she needs and needs urgently is therapeutic input which, as you know, is not easily come by.

My son is 7 and I guess easier for us because he is our child, he is adopted and he knows deep down that he's here forever. Even then it's very hard when you're dealing with a 7 year old toddler which, in effect, is what he can be. Particularly with two other children who don't present with the same issues. Thankfully our SS have been fantastic and are funding intensive therapy so we have every reason to be hopeful.

You have to put your own daughter and your own sanity first.

I do feel for this LO but I know from experience how hard it can be looking after a severely traumatised child.

Daisy Just read this thread and wanted to add to the other messages of support.

You have done an awesome job for 6 months, and although it is a very hard decision to ask for LO to be placed elsewhere, sadly it sounds as if this is what's needed. For everyone's sake, including LO's.

This weekend is going to be hard for you and I hope you can take comfort knowing that you have given LO 6 months of stable family life. Something she's never had before, and that she's not ready for yet (with a sibling, I mean), but that she will look back on in years to come and know that you loved her.

Morning Daisy. I'm hoping you've been able to get in touch with social services this morning and things are moving as we speak in finding the little one an emergency placement.

I was nearly in tears reading your post, I hope your daughter is feeling ok. ( silly thing to say really considering but I'm sure you know what I mean)

As others have said, don't take any nonsens now, she must leave today. Don't give SS an inch cos we know they'll take a mile.
Take some time off then to look after you and yours, pamper and spoil your daughter, even if its just a mother dauhgter Indian head massage, foot spa, face mask, girly dvd.

Sending hugs x

I have nothing useful to add I'm afraid-just that I hope social serices are responding correctly to the situation and to tell you that that moving her is absolutely the right thing to do.

You must now focus on your own little family and heal after this very traumatic incident.

Love and best wishes to you and your family. xx

Hope you're OK Daisy, and have had a sensible response from your sw.
Hugs for you and your daughter.
x