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Don't know how to handle this.

19 replies

babytinkabell · 22/10/2010 10:36

Hi, not really sure what I'm looking for, if anyone can offer advice it'd be great, just need to vent really lol.
One of my foster ds is 13 and has been with us for several months. Everything has been going great up until the weekend just gone. She started telling me she wanted to kill herself. This went on all weekend and on Monday I rang her social worker and counsellor to get some advice. They got a referral for a child psychiatrist. The appointment was yesterday. After the app he told me there is no immediate risk to her safety and he doesn't feel she is depressed. He and the sw both suggested (to me not to fd) that this is possibly attention seeking, which I am inclined to agree with. This morning she went off to school and handed me a letter on the way out. It reads like a suicide note. I contacted the school and have asked them to keep an eye on her today, make sure she doesn't leave etc. I called the sw and she said to leave her in school. I just don't know what to do. She has spent every evening for the last week in her room crying. We had a really close relationship until now and she used to tell me everything. Since the weekend she won't open up at all. She is happy to see the psych and counsellor but tells them very little. I'm so worried about her and have no idea how to help. I was in tears reading the letter she left me, it was thanking us for all we have done and telling me she loves me but can't go on. I just don't know what to do with her. We have 2 kids ourselves as well as another foster placement and this is starting to effect them too. Sad

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NanaNina · 22/10/2010 12:10

I have 30 years experience as a fostering sw and team manager and am now retired. This does not sound like attention seeking behaviour to me and in any event "attention seeking" really means "attention needing"

I don't mean you are not giving her attention it's just that these children from very troubled backgrounds often have emotional needs that can never really be dealt with, because the emotional harm was caused to them at a very young age, and in many cases, healing is never ever complete.

I am worrieed by the crying in her bedrooom every night which sounds like she could be depressed but it may be that at her age with hormones all over the place, something has triggered her present state. I don't mean anything you have done, children who have been abused/neglected etc have internal triggers of something that happened in the past and she just may not be able to talk to anyone about it, too hurtful.

Do you have all the details of her background, if not you must make sure you get them - if there was sexual abuse the damage caused often rears its head in teenage.

You say she has a counsellor - is this someone from SSD - whoever it is, how is it handled. Does the girl just go for counselling and you don't get any feedback. If so this isn't any good at all and I know the girl needs space to talk but you need to be involved, either with her and the counsellor or by some 3 way meeting after the counselling or whatever way there is of ensuring that you know what is happening as you are the one who is caring for her.

I don't know which LA you are - some are better than others.

I think the sw should call a meeting between yourself, school, GP, your link worker,her counsellor and psychiatrist, child's sw and anyone else involved with her and a risk
assessment carried out and plans for how to give this girl the help she needs, apart from the loving home you are giving her.

I don't want to worry you but I don't think one visit with a psychiatrist who say she isn't suicidal is going to be of much help. When people talk of suicide but don't have any real intention of carrying it out it is called suicide ideation. It is a worrying situation for you and you MUST ensure that alll those concerned with this girl are aware of her state at present and some help for you too in managing this situation.

colditz · 22/10/2010 12:20

give the letter to her psychologist and INSIST that something more is done.

I cannot believe they (not you) have neglected her to this extent. Unfortunately it's the treatment a lot of teenaged girls get from the mental health service - "Oh she's just hormonal"

She doesn't sound hormonal to me, she sounds suicidal.

Try to keep her with you, in fact I'd keep her off school if you can

phipps · 22/10/2010 12:24

I think you need to think how you would handle this if it was your biological child and then go forward. You have the support of social workers but ime they aren't great at handling emotions like this in a young teenager.

If she can't talk to you go and buy her a nice pen and notebook and you can use that to talk to each other.

She is hurting and she needs love, support, guidance and no judgement.

Good luck.

babytinkabell · 22/10/2010 13:02

Thanks for all the feedback. Phipps as regards getting her to write how she feels it's something I did in the first week she came to stay. She wouldn't talk at all about what was upsetting her, now she writes everything down and gives it to me to read. Since last weekend this just isn't happeneing any more and I can't figure out why.
Nananina AFAIK we have all the details of her background. SWs gave us all they had and fd has added to it, telling us about stuff that the sws aren't aware of. So far no sexual abuse has come to light but I wouldn't be surprised to find out it has happened. Her counsellor and myself are in regualr contact, if anything happens here that I feel the counsellor needs to know I tell her and vice versa. I insisted on this as we were giving fd conflicting advice over an issue once which obviously is not good for her. i have informed the school principal and chaplain of fds situation this week as the sw didn't seem inclined to bring it to their attention.

She has another appointment with the psychiatrist in 2 weeks so hopefully he might get a bit further with her then. She really craves attention, frightenly so. To the extent that if me and my 4 year old daughter are doing something together fd will throw a fit and storm to her room. She wont let dh sit beside me on the settee in the eves and if he insists on doing so will give him filthy looks all evening before storming out of the room. The reason the psych and sw are questioning whether this is further attetion seeking is because we've had a lot going on at home the last 2 weeks, there was a bereavement, a new foster cild moving in and my sons b'day. The sw (who knows fd quite well) is wondering how much of a conincidence the timing is. Part of was inclined to believe her but then surely they should be working with her around why she craves this attention so much rather than writing the whole thing off because they don't think its particularly serious? I don't know what to think any more. I feel bad for my son because his birthday was ruined by all this yesterday. We had family here (my parents, SIL etc) and sd was in her room and the crying was just getting louder and louder. I feel so sorry for her because things are obviously so bad for her at the moment, but at the end of all the drama yesterday she rang her friend and was having a great laugh with her on the phone. The sw is calling round later so we'll see how that goes. Thanks for all advice, really helps to talk here. Dh is at work and I don't feel like I can discuss this with anyone else.

OP posts:
phipps · 22/10/2010 13:04

To me she sounds very insecure and not sure how to be. Has she had many foster placements?

MadreInglese · 22/10/2010 13:07

babytink as well as your posts on here please consider phoning samaritans to talk about this in confidence, and encourage your foster daughter to do so too

they will be able to give you both immediate emotional support and help your fd to talk about and explore her suicidal feelings, it may be of help while she waits for her next appointment

08457 909090

babytinkabell · 22/10/2010 13:11

Phipps this is her first placement. She is really insecure and has become very close to me. Her relationship with her birth family is not good at the moment and there isnt a lot of contact. This is being worked on but it will take a lot of counselling on both sides and her parents aren't really engaging.

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phipps · 22/10/2010 13:12
Sad

I feel so sorry for her. I feel I can help if you want to PM.

NanaNina · 22/10/2010 13:36

babytink - I think colditz is over reacting here and I certainly don't think phoning Samaritans is inappropriate. Have to go out now but will "talk" later.

NanaNina · 22/10/2010 13:37

Sorry meant to say that I think phoning Samaritans IS totally inapproprite.

babytinkabell · 22/10/2010 13:42

Thanks nananina. One point you made about having a meeting with everyone involved in the childs care is really good, I'll suggest that to the sw later. I'm keeping in touch with all of the teachers, consellor, psych, gp etc but they're not really talking to each other. Phipps if you could pm me thatd be great. I love the child to bits as do the rest of my family but I'm concerned that if this is really serious maybe she needs more specialised help than I can give her? I've worked with teenager for the last few years but never had to deal with this before.

OP posts:
MadreInglese · 22/10/2010 13:43

Why would it be inappropriate? Hmm

phipps · 22/10/2010 13:46

Have sent you a PM, babytinkabell.

NanaNina · 22/10/2010 20:53

babytink - from the additional info you have given about this girl craving attention and throwing fits if you do anything with your younger child, and seems to see your H as a threat as he comes between you and her. I note you have fostered teenagers before, so must have been lucky with most placements as teenagers are notoriously difficult to foster.

As you probably know the chronological age of many of these children in the care system does not correspond with their emotional age, and so they are usually functioning at a much younger age emotionally (sometimes at a much younger age than would seem possible) their development can often be "arrested" at a time of particular trauma. I obviously can't say anything about this girl but she may well be functioning around the 8/9 year leve (which is a complete guess)

I am wondering to be honest if this is the right placement for the girl, nothing to do with you as carers as you are clearly very fond of her, but she sounds like she is so needy (as abused/neglected children almost always are) that she does not want to share you with anyone. As I said before these children have an insatiable desire for love as they were denied that usually in their formative years. It is impossible to cater for all their needs, as to a greater or lesser extent their early life experiences will affect them negatively to a greater or lesser extent through the lifespan.

This girl has to compete with your 4 yr old and another placement (what age is that child) and naturally cannot have all your attention. Seems like she has been going through a honeymoon period (which you will of course know about) and the honeymoon is coming to an end!

I think her talk of suicide and notes are her way of saying she is hurting and wants more from you - all of you in fact. Your description of relatives visiting and your girl crying in her bedroom suggests that she maybe felt left out (after all you were interacting with visitors) and her loud crying was her way of saying "I need you more than they do" or somesuch. Obviously these thoughts aren't going on at a conscious level and these kids cannot process the hurt from their past.

Does the LA have a specialist teenage scheme (as most of them do now) and I wonder if she would be better placed where there are no younger children with whom she has to compete. I remember a girl very like yours, and eventually she settled with a single female carer who could give her all the time she needed. Please don't think I am criticisig you - far from it- I have spent many years of my working like championing the wonderful work that foster carers do for troubled children.

You don't need me to tell you that you must think of your own family too. I know another move would not be good for the girl(and of course all LAs are struggling with insufficient foster carers) but you do need to think of how you and your family are being affected.

There are some comments on here about why soc workers are not doing more for this girl, but as I'm sure you know, they are all overloaded with cases and the experienced ones will have seen emotionally abused girls like yours many times before. There are no "quick fixes" for these children and sws simply do not have the time or resources to cope with all children in the care system. At least your girl has a counsellor and a psychiatrist. Is your link worker someone in whom you can trust.

Maybe talking to other foster carers who foster teenagers may help too.

Someone asks why it would be inappropriate to phone Samaritans, who would most likely advise you to talk to social workers, which is of course the right thing to do.

Do hope you can get something resolved, but please take care of yourself. You are not responsible for the girl's state and neither are the social workers. Sadly many many children are damaged by their birth parents/carers and thereis no easy solution.

babytinkabell · 23/10/2010 09:27

Nananina thanks for your reply, you have given me a lot to think about. First of all I'd just like to say our sws are great and we're very lucky with them. They are a huge support to us at times. I think a move to another placement would be really traumatic for fd at the moment. The psych mentioned it to her the other day and she got really upset. He suggested that maybe she needs to be somewhere else with specialised care where they can meet her needs better. She broke down in tears immediatley and started pleading with me not to send her away. Her school friend texted me last night and said fd was crying in school all day as she thinks I'm getting rid of her. I felt so sorry for her friend, she was so worried about fd. Fd has expressed quite clearly to her that she wants to die. Her firend is only 13 and this is a huge burden for her as well. Would it be worth calling her mum and filling her in (obviously not a detailed account) and making sure she keeps an eye on her dd? I had a chat to fd after talking to her friend and reassured her that shes not going anywhere. But then dh pointed out (to me not fd) that if she self harms or tries to commit suicide that desicion will be taken out of our hands completely. Fd was texting me all night saying things like "Sorry, i'll always love you no matter what" and "Never forget that I love u, whatever happens" I got up about 12 times last night to check on her, don't know what to think. And now its the weekend so I won't get hold of a sw if anything does happen. Sad (I don't live in the uk so i don't knpw if thats differnt her. Sws don't work weekend at all. Not even emergencies.)

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NanaNina · 23/10/2010 15:28

Babytink - I was assuming you were in the UK - are you able to say where you are or even whether you are in an EU country. I think you need to calm down about "something happening" over the weekend - this is highly unlikely.

I think the psych was totally irresponsible to talk to fd about this. The truth is (unless you are in one of the Scandinavian countries who have much better social policies than in the uk) there is no "specialised care" that "can meet her needs better" - the thing is the troubled young people need someone who can cope with the manifestation of the emotional harm that has been done to them in the past. In the UK when specialised care is mentioned it usually means some ridiculously priced residential setting which in my view is totally wrong for any child of yp, as they will be in the company of others the same way fixed as themselves. I think this goes to show how little psychiatrists understand about psychological/emotional distress. It has only recently been the case that pyschs in training includes anything about psychological aspects, and pyschiatrists in my view are experts in diagnosis and drug treatment and that's about it.

The school friend I suspect was exaggerating about fd "crying all day" - were that the case I'm sure the school would have contacted you? Teenage girls do tend to dramatise situations. It's a bit tricky contacting the friend's mother because of confidentiality. Is she someone you know and trust - if so would be ok as long as you
only give brief details.

I think this business of being "sent away" will mean that fd's behaviour, crying/talking of suicide etc will escalate now and I think you might be inadvertently be helping her along! Going in 12 times in the night - no - not on - you need sleep too and if this situation starts to affect your mental health you aren't going to be aby good to anyone.

I'm sorry but I don't think you should be re-assuring fd that she "isn't going anywhere" because that might not be the case. What does your H think of what is happening.

I think you need to continue to show fd that you care about her but try to present a calm apresence - it's a bit like walking a tightrope - you don't want to dismiss her thoughts, but at the same time I think you need to take a step back from fd's talk of suicide, and try to think in a more balanced wway. fd will know that you are worried sick and this will probably encourage her texts and declarations of love etc. That is why it is important that you calm down and try to be a little more matter of fact.

SO - find some way of calming down - and this may ease some of the tension that must be around at the moment - and NO more getting up in the night AT ALL. Sorry to be so prescriptive but I am worried about you and the effect this is having on you all.

Next week see if you can try to get a meeting of all concerned, and remember you can onlytake this situation a day at a time and there might come a time when fd does have to move on - maybe not - but again I feel I must remind you that no matter how fond you are of fd, you have your own family and another foster child to care for (presumably younger than fd?) and you can't be all things to fd and that is tough but true.

Sadly the fd's of this world will most likely have emotional problems throughout their life and you (nor anyone else) can change that - you can help her along the way but the damage has already been done.

Incidentally was this girl placed with you on a short term basis or as a permanent placement - is that the way it is organised where you live.

Best Wishes and stay calm............

babytinkabell · 23/10/2010 17:41

Thanks again nananina for your advice. Fd was placed with us short term, but it's likely to become permanent. Its a voluntary care order. We do live in an EU country, not scandinavian though.
Feel a bit better about things today. Fds being ok, a bit quiet. She was in great form earlier, laughing and playing with the younger kids. She's gone back to her room now but I'm not as worried as I was yesterday eve.

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NanaNina · 24/10/2010 14:04

Hope you had a good night's sleep last night babytink! I know I keep repeating myself but a short term placement should not be converted to permanent until everyone in the family and the young person is absolutely sure that this is the right thing for the family and the young person.

From what you say about fd she is certainly not depressed because this can't be turned on and off in the way you describe.

Anyway glad to hear you are feeling a bit better. Teenage girls like to spend lots of time in their room especially if they have TV, laptop etc. so sounds quite normal to me.

Best wishes

babytinkabell · 26/10/2010 09:47

Sorry I haven't been back for a couple of days. Thanks for the support over the weekend. Things kind of came to a head on Saturday night which I had an idea might happen. After a phone conversation with her mum fd ran off. To cut a long story short she was found reasonably quickly and brought home. Police weren't sure how to handle the situation due to the fact there were no sws available but fair dues to them they did their best.
Fd told me some stuff later on that night about things that happened in her past. I had an idea that some of this stuff had happened but glad she has finally been able to talk about it. It was a LONG weekend though and I'm just waiting to talk to the sw this morning and pass it onto her.

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