Fostering my cousins- continued...

[pinkdolly]

I have written on here several times about our journey to try and foster my little cousins.

Some of you may remember that after a glowing report we were origionally turned down due to our religious beliefs. The judge over ruled the decison and we were officially visited for the home check on saturday.

I am pleased to say it all went really well. The lady who came to see us was the team manager and held a similer belief system to our own so was very understanding.
Obviously we haven't heard back yet as she doesn't need to file her report until next week but her initial feedback to us was very poisitive.

However, she mentioned in our meeting that one of the girls had developemental delays and how would we cope with this. We said we would nee more information before we could decide on this properly.
Well today I have been in contact with the girls social worker and it turns out that both the girls have some form of developemental delay. The oldest one is not so bad, they feel her delay has been through suffering neglect and lack of stimulation. She has speech problems and confidence issues. This is nothing new to us as our oldest was like this and has now come out the other side. We have had to build her confidence and help her with speech therapy. So we are experienced in this.

The little has some bigger concerns. The foster carers noticed some delays a while back. She is about 21 months old and cant walk yet. She has a lazy eye, one foot is turned in. They say she is about 6-8 months behind other children her age. They are currently running tests to find out what is wrong with her and have queried Prader Willi syndrome (sp). They do not know if the delay will get bigger as she gets older as the tests are not completed yet.

Obviously she will need more care than at first thought.

Now I have to make an awful decison. I have 4 children of my own, the 2 youngest being roughly than my 2 cousins. Can I give the girls what they need.

I dont want to say know. I dont know what their future will hold if I do say know. My dh is out at the moment so I will speak to him later when he gets home. We will have a lot of talking to do obviously.

The youngest wont be disabled, I have googled PWS and they say that the child will reach their walking, talking etc milestones by age 5.

But like I say the tests aren't finished yet so it could be something else. Or maybe it could just be nothing and just that she had a bad upringing from birth and needs more time to catch up.

Has anyone got any helpful advice?

Sorry I meant my 2 youngest are both 3 months younger than my two cousins. (4 and 19 months)

What awful- awful typos- obviously I meant no not Know. I am literate obviously, just have a bad head cold at the moment so not concentrating properly.

Oh pinkdolly :( What a terrible dilemma.

Firstly it is good that the SW is much more positive about the option of the girls coming to stay with you. It is always good to have options.

It was never going to be easy having 2 sets of irish twins in a family, especially with another 2 children too. I don't think anyone would be able to criticise you for thinking that it would be too much to cope with.

Although in saying that perhaps the fact that your cousins would have children to twin with would make it easier for them to catch up as they have someone at the same developmental stage (almost) and be able to imitate that and come on from there.

It is amazing how much difference there is when a child has stimulation and love. My MIL was abandoned as a baby and was basically left in her cot in the car home, she couldn't even sit at 1 - she had no hair on one side of her head and was given to a woman to care for her to take home as they believed that she was going to die - as she was so delayed - needless to say she not only survived but is perfectly normal mentally and is a very healthy 64 year old lady. (She was adopted by the lady eventually)

I guess you really need all the information before you can decide what to do.

Have you seen the littlest one? As PWS tends to be quite obvious by facial features

Im sure you will make the right decision for you all

Thank you-
Sorry I didn't reply earlier I have been ill with a bad headcold.

Anyway my opening post was a gut reaction to the news. After giving it some thought and discussing it with my husband and my 2 oldest girls. We have decided that we actually have a lot to offer the children. My oldest went through the same things as my oldest cousin so can empathise and help with that. Plus we have experience.

And just as you have said we decided that the stimulation that our family could provide for the littliest one would be really beneficial for her developement.

We have told the social worker that we would like to continue. On Monday she has to write her report and decide whether to recomend us or not. So just waiting now.

Thanx again.

good luck with your journey, we are also near the end of our assessment and awaiting our panel date, so are also really nervous but looking forward to helping give a child some stability and love.

Hi Pinkdolly

hoping that you are feeling better than you were.

Your family sound truly amazing. What you are attempting to do is simply humbling.

I hope that your social worker comes to the decision that you are the right place for your cousins to be placed.

let us know how you get on - you and your little cousins are in my thoughts

Hi PinkDolly

Wishing you the best.

Many, many children in the care system are labelled developmentally delayed. Its a bit of a catch all term. A lot of them will catch up given the right environment.

My DS wont catch up as it turns out his DD was due to ASD and other things. But he is still wonderful and I wouldnt change what we did, even if I knew that at the time.

He was only 8 weeks old when he came to us so it was all unknown.

PWS can be very mild but as far as I know there is always some degree of learning difficulty. The food obessions can be very difficult to live with. My DS hasnt got PWS but he is obsessed with certain foods and we have had to come up with stratagies to deal with this.

Have you clarified with SS what your status will be i.e. foster carers, special guardians etc. These have their own advantages and disadvantages and its important to know your stuff. Have you been in touch with www.frg.org ? If you havent I would strongly recommend you do ASAP.

Best wishes.

Thank you for your encouraging words. We too hope the SW will be favourable towards us. It is a big commitment but we are ready for that and the exciting challenges that will come out of it.

I haven't looked at that link yet but I will take a look. We have been told by the SW that they are looking at us being long term foster carers for the girls. TBH I hadn't brooched the subject with them of us being anything else (i.e the special Gaurdian route) because I thought we should wait until we knew whether or not we would pass their assessment. Do you think I should have said something.

I understand that with foster care the social services have more input and say and maintian a parental responsibility over the girls. And that we would be paid a weekly allowance. Where as a special guardianship order would give us the parental responsibility and less sw involvement and we would have no allowance but instead be entitled to tac credits and child benefit. Is that right?

Dh and I aren't in it for the money so we are not looking for the most we can get. But I know the sw mentioned that they are looking at some sort of twin care arrangement (i think that's what she said). As although they are saying it will be long term (until the girls are 18) there may be a slim chance in the future of them returning to their mum.

So in that respect I think they want to keep more involved with them. I am not sure if they would therefore go for anything other than a foster care arrangement.

Anyway I will go and check that site out and see what it says.

I will let you know when I know how things have gone on with the report.

bmalex- I really hope everything works out well for you and you are happy.

thefirstmrsdevere- If it does all go ahead and it turns out that my little cousin does have PWS I may need to pick ur brains about the food strategies if that's ok.

Lol- just clicked on the link and got the falcon research group- dedicated to the research and protection of raptors.

Oops! Blimey what if that has been happening for years!!!

Its The Family Rights Group and should be www.frg.org.uk

Money is important because looking after someone else's children is very expensive. But of course you are not after the most you can get. None of us are although its an accusation quite often thrown our way

Fostering means you should get ongoing support and training but it is probably the most invasive route. You will not have PR and that can be VERY difficult sometimes.

Anyway - FRG are the best to advise as its been ages since I was involved battling with the system.

I wish you all the best and hope you let us know how you get on.

pinkdolly - think we have spoken before - you may recall that I am a recently retired sw and was a tm mgr of a fostering team for 15 years and have 30 yrs experience in fostering.

I'm really sorry to go against what everyone is saying and what you and your H have decided, but I honestly and truly think the risks are too great with these 2 little girls, when you already have 4 children of your own and with 2 of them being similar ages.

The thing is about developmental delay it is a syndrome and until the child grows and meets (or not) the milestones, no-one can know whether the disabilities/delays are going to be minor or major, or somewhere in between. Were I assessing you I'm afraid I would have to say that your first duty is to your own children and with 4 children you must already have your hands very full (so to speak) I actually think in terms of taking on 2 more children, both with some significant uncertainties about their physical, social and emotional development, would not be fair to your own children, nor your cousins.

I know you say you have experience of the oldest child's problems, but you don't have experience of caring for a child who has suffered neglect and the effects of early neglect cannot and should not be under estimated. Dependent upon the level of neglect, children can be affected throughout the life span, and no amount of love and care can compensate in many cases.

Were you a couple with older children it may be different, but I think you are letting your hearts over-rule your heads. The fact that these children cannot be cared for by their parents is not your responsibility and I know you are caring and want to do the best for these children, but in my opinon these children need carers who have grown up children and can devote all their time and energy to them. You will be trying to divide your time between 6 children! Also most LAs have a policy that there should be at least 2 years between a long term fostered child and a birth child. I know this policy is relaxed when it comes to kinship care, but 4 of these children are just too close in age. Your own children will have to compete with 2 children with special needs who are very close in age, and this will be bound to cause major difficulties.

Indeed I feel so strongly that I think it would be irresponsible of a fostering panel to agree this plan. Just to clarify, children can be placed for permanency either by way of long term fostering of Special Guardianship. If you do decide to go ahead it definitely needs to be on the basis of long term fostering because you will need SS behind you in case of future difficulties. You will also be assured of a fostering allowance (you say you are not doing it for money but yu need to be realistic about this) these extra children are going to cost you and fostering allowances are mandatory. It does of course mean that the children if on a Care Order you will not have Parental Responsibility (PR) but that will remain with the LA. With SGO that goes through the court and you are awarded PR and are "off" the books of social services. There ar rules attached to SG Orders that sday SSd must give you support (including finance) when needed but believe you me, once you have that order, SSD will disappear into the woodwork and you will be left to cope alone.

I can't work out how well you know these cousins - do you already have a good relationship with them, it almost seems not, as you would surely have noticed their problems.

Look I'm sorry and I hope I haven't offended you but I am just giving advice based on 30 years experience of fostering and this plan just sounds unworkable to me for the reasons stated.

Nananina- No offence taken. Thankyou very much for your input.

You are right I dont know my cousins at all. My uncle moved away before they were born and we haven't met them. We are being spurred on by the fact that there is no one else in the family to care for them and if we dont do this they will be lost to our family.

Dh and I know what a mammoth task it would be, as do our children we have been totally honest with them about what it would mean to our family and how having them around would affect us.

We have also been totally honest with the sw in saying that we believe with the support networks we have in place that we can do this. However, they are best placed to decide that for us and we would be dissapointed obviously but totally understanding if they turned us down based on the fact that it would be too much for us. I feel that we have been realistic about this, we have told our children it may never happen as our family is big already.

We feel that we need to try, it wouldn't sit well with us if we just did nothing.
But you are right of course- there is a big chance that we will be turned down. At least we will be able to say we tried.

Thank you for your opinion- it is appreciated.

Hi, we have chatted before too. What a dilemma for you now!

I understand the issue with the eldest may be more straight forward & probably very manageable in your situation, she will have stable support to develop and improve

The youngest is different as you have no idea what the issues are. It may just be down to lack of care but it depends on your time/energy/emotion levels to cope in this situation especially alongside your own dds. I would gather as much info on what tests/checks/assessments she has had done to try & gain more understanding of where she is at and where progress has been made since being in care.

Ive worked with a couple of people with PWS and all had MLD & were young emotionally which made managing the food obsession harder.

I think you need more info on her prognosis before you commit but its right to consider all options & if you don't think you can manage it's not at all bad to say so as it's what would be best for the girls as well ad yourself.

Good luck

Have just heard that the SW is going to file a negative report. She spoke really positive about us as a family but said that she felt teh future chance of indirect contact between the girls and their dad is too high a risk. This is based on the fact that I see my dad several times a week and the girls dad is his brother.

I dont know what to say or do really. We haven't been turned down for our lack of parenting ability but for an assumption that we would not safe gaurd the children in the future. They have not spoken to my parents at all who would have assuered them that we would not allow any form of contact.

I said if I got turned down because they thought we couldn't cope then I would accept that. But this is just as assumtion, and we have done our utmost to try and assure them that we would not allow contact.

Oh pinkdolly I cannot understand what the LA are doing in relation to your application to care for your cousins. Am I right in thinking that one sw did not think it appropriate to pursue your application because of your religious views? I am assuming that the LA are in care proceedings in respect of your cousins and when this happens, there are lots of hearings called (Direction Hearings) and this is so the judge can keep a check on what is going on and make sure everyone is adhering to the court timetable. I am assuming that at a Directions Hearing the judge over ruled the view that you should not be assessed because of your religious views. Is that right?

At present the LA are assessing whether or not it is appropriate to carry out a comprehensive assessment on you based on your stated wish to care for your cousins on a permanent basis. At least this is my assumption. It is a realistic thing for LAs to do because if there is some good reason why the assessment is inappropriate, there is little point in wasting their time (and yours) by carrying out a very time consuming and comprehensive assessment.

It seems that they are now ruling out pursuing your application by beginning your assessment based on this business of the children's father. Sorry but I don't know the background. Does the father of the children visit your dad on a frequent and regular basis, and could his visits co-incide with yours. As I say I don't know the background but if the father of the children could get contact with his children via your visits to your dad, then I can see the concern. Where is the mother of the children in all this I wonder.

One of the most difficult things in kinship assessment is to ensure that the relative carers can keep the children safe from the parents (who have clearly been deemed to be unsuitable to care for the children). Sometimes relative carers can find themselves in a very difficult position.

Can you give me a bit more background - is the father of the children living in close proximity to you, does he visit your dad on a frequent basis, are you aware of the reasons the children were removed from their parents. What is the mother's position.

Importantly what is the view of your parents to whatever happened to your cousins at the hands of their parents. If they realise the importance of the girls not having contact with their father, then that is re-assuring.
Have you thought through exactly how you would safeguard the children, given the family circumstances.

I can see the LA's concern BUT I also think they are messing you about, first one quite inappropriate reason (your religion) and now the worry about the father getting into contact with his children.

I think you should ask for a meeting with the team manager to discuss all these matters and if you (and your parents) can assure them that you are all aware of the absolute need to safeguard the children and not allow any contact between them and their father, I think the LA should take that into consideration.

The only other thing of course is if you do end up taking the children into your care, their father will know where they are, and may make efforts to see them. I have known some really awful situations where parents know which relative is caring for their child and have turned up at the school gates etc. And again, it is easy to safeguard the children when they are little, but of course as they grow up, it does often mean that the parents can make contact with the children, which would not be in their best interests.

Hope I haven't confused you more, but I don't really have sufficient information to really help you. If you do feel after the discussion with the tm mgr that you are being unfairly treated, every LA has a complaints procedure which you would be entitled to follow and the matter would be passed to a senior officer of the LA for a decision.

If you can give me more info, I will advise further if I can.

Thanx NanaNina- It was the team manager who came to visit us to carry out the viability check. My Uncle is is in prision and new allegations (which he told us he is pleading guilty to) mean he will probably be there for a very long time.

Before this he hadn't seen my parents since before the girls were born so at least 5 years, they have never been in regular close contact. My dad may have spoken to hime once or twice a year on the phone but that's it.

The social workers never asked to speak to mum and dad to ascertain their views on contact.

We did get turned down first based on our religious views and that was overturned by the judge.

The children were taken into care after my uncle went into prison as their mother was neglecting them. They tried alsorts of things to help her but nothing worked.

My parents have said they wouldn't want my uncle near any of their 8 grandchildren let alone his own children. so they totally appreciate the need for no contact.

I just feel that we weren't given an adequate chance to prove ourselves. The team manager wa so complimentry, said our children were a credit to us and we were lovely people etc etc. It was just this point she flagged up. And as my dh said how can they refuse us on an issue when they haven't actually looked into that issue properly. I may have understood more if they had said it would be too much for you too cope with, but they said nothing like that at all.

I rang the Fostering advice line and they said I should instruct my solicitor to become party to the proceedings and get an independant sw assessment and that we should go for special gaurdianship.

I hope I haven't put to much information on here. Just really concerned about our treatment.

Oh not another problem. Very strange. Especially when they had another ' excuse' if they don't want to place the children with you (SNs)

So sorry to hear this pinkdolly. I would phone the social workers and tell them that you want to appeal the decision based on they have not got any evidence to back up their fears and you actually do have evidence that their fears are unfounded.

stay strong

Hi, I have just skimmed this story, have you thought of postin gon the special needs board for experiences of PWS or children with DD in larger familes - just a thought but hope it helps

Found out this morning that they never contacted my referees either. This was another thing the court had wanted them to do.

pink I have sent you a message but not sure if I have got it right . Not used the function before.

Hi Pinkdolly - do you have a solicitor acting for you and is he/she experienced in family law. I say this because many of them aren't and can't always represent their clinet very well.

You say you phoned the Fostering Advice Line - is this serviced by foster carers? This is getting a very complicated situation. I am assuming the advice was to ask your solicitor to be made party to the proceedings in the care proceedings, and this is a possibility I think. If this was agreed by the judge then your solicitor would be able to put forward your views and the actions of the LA during the care proceedings. I think permission would have to be granted for you to be made party to the proceedings at a directions hearing. If this was agreed as well as being represented, you will be able to have access to all the paper work (known as the court bundle) in the case.

I also wondered about you making an application for a SGO - but the trouble with that is that you would be assessed just as comprehensively by the LA who are concerned about your application, as you would be for fostering. It doesn't make any sense for the LA to turn you down for fostering but to make a positive recommendation for a SGO. The only difference is that the SGOrder would be presented to the court and it is the Judge who makes the final decision but they do usually follow the recommendation of the s.w. However I would be really concerned even if you got the SGO because you are then going to be left without (or very minimum support)and I think this could leave you very vulnerable.

From what you say the risks to the children from their father are very low. I am assuming this is a sexual abuse case and I think what we have learned about such men over the years is that they are predators and are very clever at finding ways to be in contact with children. So I don't think the SSD are thinking that you would put the children at risk, but they will have knowledge of cases where fathers have found a way (especially as they get older) of finding them. I have also known cases where these fathers who have served long custodial sentences have gone on to abuse their grandchildren. It doesn't sound like the SSD are really explaining all these things. I also thik they have NOT done an adequate risk assessment, especially as you say by not .talking to your parents. Unless referees know the details of the abuse to your cousins, they aren't going to be of much use because the main concern of the LA at the moment is the risk to the children once their father is out of prison. Again I have to say that this IS a risk, no matter how much you try to safeguard them, for reasons related to thge profile of these abusing men.

I still think the first thing that you should do is arrange a meeting with the social workers concerned to raise your concerns about what you see as their inadequate risk assessment. OR you could put your concerns in writing and ask for a meeting to discuss - this might be the best option because it will give you time to think things through.

This is in fact the first stage in the complaints procedure and if agreement cannot be reached at the first stage, you carry on through the various stages (ask for a copy of the complaints procedure) and if you don't reach agreement make it clear that you intend to pursue your complaint.

Also make it clear that you are requesting you solicitor to request you are made party to the care proceedings. This will worry them because they know that their shortcomings will be heard by the judge in the care proceedings.

You could also mention you are condsidering making application for an SGO but I honestly think you will be shooting yourself in the foot by making such an application for the reasons given. Indeed I think I am right in saying that you can only make application for a SGO with the agreement of the LA/SSD unless the children have lived with you for 3 years (I am not 100% on this, so check it out with the LA)

The judge (at directions) can agree that an independent assessor is appointed. However this will be very costly and if you are entitled to legal aid that will not be a problem.

Keep me posted and I will continue to offer whatever help I can.