asked to consider being kinship foster carer for friends DD

[mamadoc]

My friend has had her 5 yr old DD taken into care for emotional abuse (persistent shouting and derogatory comments apparently).
The police initially took her for 72hrs then she signed voluntarily but they are taking her to court anyway for ICO.
We have been friends for 3 years and our DDs (mine is 3) often play together. I was so shocked that this has happened as I have never witnessed or even suspected anything abusive from her.
She is a single mum and has no family at all as she herself was brought up in care.
She has been reading up and has asked me if I would consider this kinship foster carer option.
I really want to help this little girl and her mum.
Against that I am worried about the effects on DD (who is precious only child) of suddenly acquiring an older sister and I am a bit anxious about parenting an older child with behavioural issues in such a difficult context.
I don't know if we would even be suitable as we are not proper family (we are all she's got though), I am not SAHM and friend lives very nearby so it would be hard to limit access if that is needed.
Can anyone tell me more about this?
Would we even be considered? Am I mad to think about it?

When you say you are not a "proper family" what do you mean? Are you a single mum?

I'm pretty sure you would be considered suitable if you have the space.

Go for it, you sound like a great mum and this little girl needs you. If you don't want to however, make sure you think it through properly and let her know as soon as you can, or the little girl will be in respite care for a long time.

I'm sure they will consider you very seriously, IF you are up for doing this. But you need to think through very carefully whether it would be right for your dd - social services will also want to be sure that your dd will not be adversely affected. And if they need to limit your friend's access to her child, you need to be able to comply with that and put the child's needs ahead of the adult's - which I'm sure won't be easy, it may come down to refusing a tearful friend contact with her own daughter. My adopted dd didn't go to a family member who offered to adopt her because of just that: social services didn't trust the relative's willingness and ability to deny access as necessary, and to put the child's needs first.

Above all, I'd urge you not to volunteer for this unless you really feel able and willing to follow through. This little girl needs as much stability as possible, and it would be awful if you took her on then didn't feel able to cope.

You sound like a very caring friend and mother. Good luck.

I would be extremely reluctant to get involved with this tbh. As you say you're not really sure what this child has undergone, but for s/s to remove a child it is likely to be very significant factors. Damaged children can be far more demanding to care for than many people expect. But I would be especially reluctant because of your dd's age. It will be very tough on her and she may resent you for a long time afterwards.

For many placements they prefer an age gap of at least 4 years and ideally the placed child should be the youngest.

Oh I didn't mean we are not a proper family (I also think lone parent families are proper families). I meant we are not blood relatives of hers only good friends.

We have a spare bedroom. Finances would stretch I expect.

I am worried about DD. I guess I would try to treat the two girls exactly the same and DD would I expect find it hard to share her parents attention. OTOH she likes playing with this girl so there is an upside for her.

I also worry exactly as you say hester that friend is seeing this as a chance to have more access to her DD and might try to push me or engineer bumping into us at the park. She is only allowed supervised contact at present.

There will be a conflict of interest as I am one of her main supporters so if I have to limit seeing her she will lose out but she will know her DD is with someone she knows and trusts. The current foster carers sound lovely but they are quite a long way away (we think) and this poor LO has to go to school alone in a taxi every day.

If I do want to can anyone fill me in on the process?
How long am I signing up for? I was seeing it as a sort of medium term months not years thing until she is deemed safe to have her DD back.

No advice but just wanted to say how lovely you are for even considering it, and wise for thinking it through.

The only thing I can help with is that you said "Finances would stretch I expect" - I believe (although may be corrected by someone more knowledgeable) that SS will provide funding to you for fostering

roisin- at first I was astounded and thought it a complete over-reaction.
Now she has shown me the court papers and it seems there are complaints stretching back over years at different addresses of loud, abusive shouting. The trigger for this action was that environmental health actually taped it so there is concrete evidence.
Her explanation is that she gets to the end of her tether with her DDs challenging behaviour. She is indeed challenging but I guess I am coming around to the view of SS that it might be consequence not cause.
I still think that they should have offered her help before doing this. I know that she is willing and able to change but no-one has ever given her a better way to go. I include myself in that as I have never seen it as my place to give someone else parenting advice.

Hi you sound like a great friend to have.

i would proceed with caution, perhaps ask your friend to give your details to the social worker but make it clear to friend you are not committing at this stage.

At the moment you only know one side of the story and there may be much more you don't know. when sw gets in touch with you they will outline the whole story and you will be able to make a better descion then based on all the facts.

You may decide you are best placed to support your friend without caring for her daughter and that would also be a very valuable thing to do.

Good luck whatever you decide.

mamadoc, I think I would now go further and say I think it highly unlikely that you can support both your friend and her dd through this process. If you do foster this girl, you will be in effect acting on behalf of social services and you can't also be your friend's ambassador and conduit to her daughter. What happens if your friend turns up at your house, crying and begging to see her child, if that is not allowed? Would you be able to handle a situation where your friend, her dd and social services were all giving you different versions of the same information? Would you be doing this primarily for your friend or for her dd? - if the former, what happens if social services tell you some really ghastly stuf about her?

Which is not to say I don't think it can work, but only if your friend takes the view that she would rather her dd is with you than anyone else, and recognises this means that you cannot also be her advocate.

I guess I am wanting to do it primarily for my friend.
I do like her DD although I worry it would be hard to love her as my own.
She has behavioural problems that make her harder to love (got excluded from school for aggression but never been aggressive to my DD).
My friend has been critical of minor things she feels the foster carers have done wrong eg lost a school cardigan and I wonder if our friendship would survive if she doesn't like my parenting or feels I am siding with the enemy.
Thanks for helping me get my thoughts straight on this.
I haven't rejected the idea but I need to have a serious talk with her so that she understands that if she wants me to have her DD I won't be bending the rules and it might mean she loses out herself.

Are you still around OP?? what has been happening ??

Yes still lurking around.
No big news as it seems the care system grinds very slowly.
We got all excited when she went to court to oppose the ICO but it was adjourned for another month. So her DD remains in foster care until its decided.
Our main hope is that they don't get the ICO and let her come home although I guess I think it a bit unlikely.
If they get the ICO then I guess that is when they start looking at 'the wider family network'.
They are looking at the father too much to my friends annoyance as he has never been involved or cared at all. He actually moved away when she was 6mo pregnant without telling her and according to her he is a drug user and benefit cheat. Unfortunately his name is on the birth certificate as she did not understand the implications of it at the time.
I am still willing to help if I am needed mainly because I can't bear to see what is happening to this little girl. I have my eyes open now to the potential problems though and if it does become any kind of realistic prospect I will make it clear that she will be making a choice between me helping her or me looking after her DD as I can't do both.

mamadoc - I have 30 years experience in social work, as a child protection worker, and manager of a fostering team. If a Care Order is made the LA do have a duty to see if there are relatives or friends who can care for the child. How old is this child by the way.

Sorry but I can see all sorts of problems ahead, which others have mentioned. If a Care Order is made it really means that the mother is unfit to care for her child though she will probably be allowed contact,which may be supervised. However your friend is almost certainly going to press you for more contact or take to popping over to see her child, which is going to put you in a very difficult position.

I am also concerned that the child in question is older than your own child - and has behaviour problems undoubtedly caused by her mother's poor parenting. I think you need to be realistic about this, and your own child could become very unhappy with an arrangement especially as the child is older. What is the age difference?

If this child is not going to be returned to the care of her mother, then yes she is going to need a permanent family BUT that is not your problem. You must think of yourself and you own child first and foremost and don't let your heart over rule your head.

Also anyone putting themselves forward to take over the permanent care of a child has to be thoroughly assessed by a social worker and every nook and cranny of your life is looked into. You may find this helpful though because you will (if you go ahead) talk in depth about the child and the pros and cons of taking over her care. The assessing sw then has to make a recommendation to the fostering panel about your suitability (or otherwise) and of course the reality is that you won't know whether it is going to work until it happens.

My advice for what it's worth is to steer clear - I think there are just too many problem areas for it to have a good chance of being successful.

Update: The court hearing was this week and the ICO has been granted. Friends DD will remain with the foster carers (who seem lovely) until Dec.
Her ex has expressed an interest and been made party to the proceedings. He will also start to have supervised access from now on even though he hasn't seen his DD for 3 years. He does have PR as he is on the birth cert.
After a lot of thought and prayer I have told my friend that I can't consider fostering her DD because of the effect it will have on mine. I don't think SS will be looking for anyone else now anyway as the father is in the picture. I have decided that the best way I can help is to continue to support her with the court process.

mamadoc - sounds like a good decision!