white poppys?

[fluffles]

i like the idea of a white poppy for peace but i want to check - does the british legion or service soldiers find them offensive?

i would like to remember all victims of war and make a statement for peace but i don't want to offend the current or past forces.

can somebody let me know?

thanks.

p.s. see www.whitepoppy.org.uk/ for more info...

have to say id just say sod offending anyone in future and wear what the hell you like. whats the point in asking if all you get its this type of crap for trying to find out?

think ill bypass poppies altogether. that way i cant offend anyone!

Must try to remember that the only people with a valid opinion on war are those actively engaged in it, or with family doing so. That's sorted then. No more thinking about the rights and wrongs of it, or the politics behind it, or the spin and sentimentality cast over it...no more challenging those in power who sent people to war, or those who choose it as a profession...fab. no more bloody poppies too.

OP I understand why you posted here. You were trying to be sensitive and understand. Not your fault it blew up.

I don't care if people discuss anti war movements, white poppies etc. We are all entitled to have and voice our own opinions but I think that some consideration should be given as to where op's are placed.

Just do it somewhere else on mumsnet instead of Forces Sweethearts. If this had been in chat, then fair enough, the responses the op would have gained would probably be different.
But to place it here, when people here have got family members who are currently deployed, is imvho, slightly insensitive.

I always thought that the reason for this topic was for people who were in a similar situation to chat about issues that they have in common and to give each other support, not to discuss the rights/wrongs of war.

but flappy i thought the OP had posted it here because she was asking if it would offend those in the forces or those with loved ones in the forces. a simple "yes it would offend me" would have been sufficient. i think she posted in the most relevant place to the question.

youve actually done yourself a disservice here in the way youve responded (not just you i have to say) and youve lost any sympathy i would have had with your view.

the OP didnt deserve a pasting for asking a simple question.

I didn't give the OP a pasting, there were other comments made, not by her, which have no place in this topic or thread.

Maybe if you read the whole thread, you might understand!

The OP was told in the first few postings that it would be found offensive. Thereafter responses were not to the OP but to some of the other posters.

OP - if you want to wear a white poppy wear one, but be aware that it will be found offensive by many people.

Completely agree with Vicar. I saw this last night and felt for the OP.

Flappy - The OP's question was only pertinent to armed forces bods, so she came here. IF she went to Chat and asked 'would people in the armed forces be offended', I suspect that more than one bright spark would have suggested she post in this topic instead. How difficult is that to understand?

Perhaps you were too busy making your petty point about your name to notice that the OP didn't actually discuss the rights/wrongs of war. I suppose it's implicit that she's against war but that's not offensive, is it? She wasn't arguing against military invasion for example. The fact that she wanted to know if armed forces personnel would be offended clearly shows she has sympathy with you and was trying to be sensitive to your situation.

As for hf's 'shut the door on your way out, dear' - I've 'seen' you around and always admired the cut of your jib, am disappointed to see you couldn't do better than a hackneyed and bloody irritating MN phrase.

i dont think there is much point in talking to the OP as she said a few pages back she wouldnt come back.

i have read the whole thread. i think its a shame that someone cant come to those 'in the know' and ask a question. from the OPs response i thought she felt she was coming under fire for asking. i think it shows some posters in a bad light.

Please read my post of 12:56 today please, I think I just might have mentioned that it was other peoples comments. I know the op did not mention the rights or wrongs of war, she didn't need to, asking what we thought of white poppies was enough.

The OP did not want to ask her RL friends who are in the armed forces because she obviously knew that the armed forces would probably find them offensive.

I will reiterate what I said in an earlier post, I have no issue if people wear a red, white or no poppy. At the end of the day it is a personal choice.

It was the placing of the discussion within this topic and then the comments that followed that I found offensive.

I'm a bit late but just want to add that if people want to protest the war, they should do so on the 364 days of the year that are not Remeberance Day.

I would never ever wear a white poppy. It sounds very distasteful. But, then my brother arrives home today after spending a year in Iraq where he has not even once seen his wife or three children. It has been very hard for all of them. And I just think a white poppy is terrible. Truly offensive.

I think it's okay that OP posed the question. I don't think she did anything wrong. But, that is my view of the white poppy.

I am now wondering if this is a trend. Am I going to go to church on Sunday and see people wearing white poppies? I don't know what I'll do if this happens. I would certainly be very upset. I hope this does not happen.

Flappy - I hadn't seen your 12:56 post when I posted. It wasn't clear from your post I was responding to that you meant other people and not the OP. You did start the post talking about the OP.

I think it's fair enough if the OP didn't ask her RL armed forces friends. She asked because she didn't want to offend them. Maybe they're all away serving and she though an email specifically asking them about white poppies would be offensive?

And btw, you haven't actually said in an earlier post that you have no issue with whether people wear a red or white poppy or none at all. Feel free to check and let me know if I'm wrong about that.

She may not post Vicar - but she may lurk and read. The negative comments weren't aimed at her, she got the response in a few initial postings.

By FlappyTheBat Mon 02-Nov-09 05:26:18
I don't care if people discuss anti war movements, white poppies etc. We are all entitled to have and voice our own opinions but I think that some consideration should be given as to where op's are placed.

I thought the official British Legion line was that the red poppy already encompasses the sentiments of the white, so the white is redundant.

Flappy - I did see that, but saying you don't care if people discuss these topics is not the same as saying you don't care what type of poppy they do/don't wear.

scaryteacher - the criticism of where to place the OP was clearly aimed at the OP, and came afte the first few responses. But granted, there was some negative comments aimed at a few other posters that had nothing to do with the OP.

It was bound to be an emotive question. My dh is coming to the end (in 4 years, having done 30 already) of his Naval career; my Dad was in, my fil was in, and my db is in and about to go off to Afghanistan for 6 months, so I am Forces through and through.

Most of us (Forces Sweethearts if you like) know people who haven't come back from deployments of one sort or another, or have seen the aftermath for those who did come back. Most of us have lived with checking under our cars for bombs in the morning; with not discussing what our dh's/other relatives do.

All of us have lived with what Flappy so eloquently described earlier - you wave them off to sea or on deployment, and you don't know if you'll see them again. I went through all bar about 13 weeks of my pregnancy, including giving birth, not knowing where my dh was; and he didn't know he was a Dad until 3 days after the event.

For me at least, wearing a red poppy is a way of saying thanks to those who died during the Great War and WW2, so that I can live as I do now. It is also to remember those who died during the Falklands; Bosnia; Iraq and Afghanistan and in N.I. and those who continue to do their jobs so professionally. It's also to remember those who have come back injured and shattered, and those who can't cope once they have come back and kill themselves, as happened recently to someone. It's to show the members of HM Forces past and present that what they do is valued and appreciated by me at least.

For me, a white poppy does not do any of the above. War is a last resort when communication has broken down, but sometimes, as someone posted earlier, it is the only way left.

I'm sorry if I found the OP's question insensitive, my problem, no one else's.

I'm sorry if I have issues about where she chose to place her op.

I'm sorry for having gone through the experience of having dh deployed to Iraq etc.

I'm sorry if I didn't appreciate reading anti war comments on the forces sweethearts topic.

Flappy, you are really taking it all too personally. The OP wanted to know, as she did not know, whether it would be a problem. So she goes on MN to ask the very people who do know, what they felt. It was the right place to ask. She got her answer.

The other issues came out of the mindless vitriol directed at the OP for asking a reasonable question of people who do know. She wasn't asking for you to agree with her considering wearing a white poppy, or disrespecting those in the armed forces, simply whether on the whole it would offend.

No, actually I don't think I am taking it too personally.

Your earlier comment of "no more challenging those in power who sent people to war, or those who choose it as a profession." says it all.

You should be thankful that people have given and continue to give their lives in order for us to live the way we do today.

That includes being thankful for the ability to say what we think, even if others don't agree with what we say.

Well, flappy, I agree that that discussion belongs on another board. and will happily engage with you on it there, if you wish to discuss it further.

I stick by the point that the OP was being actually quite sensitive and reasonable in coming to forces MNetters for a viewpoint on whether they would find it offensive, after all, its you lot she didn't want to offend.

Actually, I think the post about the act of rememberance serving to legitimise war is where the thread turned south. And it is no wonder forces families and sweethearts took offense to the tone that followed.

Sorry for another C&P.

I hadn't entered into this discussion until page 4, so well after this comment appeared on page 1,

"The act of remembrance is used every year to legitimise war though (not glorify), by reminding us of those who died to protect our freedom,which somehow blurs with those who are risking their lives right now to protect American oil interests.
I dont wear red poppies any more. Have never worn a white one either."

This is what I took offense to and I felt that it was a crass comment to make on this topic/thread.

Unfortunately because this was not started in chat, this thread and these sentiments will be around in the archives for a long time.

It is perfectly possible to think that some wars are unjustifiable and illegitimate and at the same time mourn the sacrifice and heroism of armed forces personnel.

That is true and I am sure that I speak for many other forces families, if I say that I would be happier if we lived in a world where there was no conflict.

But the act of Remembrance is not used to legitimise war, far from it. I think it highlights how many lives have been lost or ruined because of war.
It is a time for us to give thanks to those who are prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice.