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Forces sweethearts

If you have a family member in the Royal Navy, RAF or army, find support from other Mumsnetters here.

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Original poster

CEA Scam

23 replies

WhatWillSantaBring · 11/04/2012 12:48

Would you report someone you knew was falsely claiming to have moved the family with them to a new posting, presumably to claim CEA?

It winds me up every time I see them - not only are they claiming CEA they're not entitled to, but they're also using up a MQ in an area that is chronically short of housing!

I'm not serious about reporting them and wouldn't know how anyway, but would be interested to canvas opinion. Is this a serious "crime" or am I just bitter that CEA will have long disappeared by the time my DC are ready for secondary school?

OP posts:

pimmsgalore · 11/04/2012 16:22

I would report them, you can ring the helpline and they don't ask for your details. The MQ thing is a little different, they may be storing furniture that doesn't fit in their own house. If we all report the false claims then maybe CEA will stay for those who wish to use it for the right reasons in the future.

Navy people will be along to link you to the news about false claims shortly :)

meditrina · 11/04/2012 16:28

Yes, report. Providing you are sure that they are not moving the family at all (and it's not just a 'finish one term in place X before moving to place Y' if they have younger children as well as CEA ones).

There's a hotline somewhere.

Underlying and key point: how can someone with no integrity in peacetime be trusted in war?

meditrina · 11/04/2012 16:30

The anonymous fraud helpline is 0800 161 3665.

penguin73 · 11/04/2012 23:21

I would report too. CEA is one of the biggest areas of fraud costing the Armed Forces huge amounts of money that they cannot afford to lose.

Original poster

WhatWillSantaBring · 12/04/2012 13:58

Interesting, I had not expected such overwhelming support in favour of reporting. I like to think they are going to move, they're just waiting till (perhaps) the youngest has finished this school year, but they've gone to such elaborate lengths to make it look like the family has moved.

I will have to get over my middle class guilt thing and remember that the money they are falsely claiming could be going to providing spare parts so that the planes can actually fly (or something similar)....

Thank you for the number - I will give it a ring and see what they say.

OP posts:

goinggetstough · 12/04/2012 18:20

Definitely report them as it is fraud!
However, if the DH/W has moved to a new posting they will have had to apply for a new mobility certificate and list a new MHQ address. So if they are hanging onto to 2 MHQs they will be found out or do you mean they are living in their own house and have taken a MHQ at the new posting. If its the latter they won't be alone. People do this and the only way to stop it is for people like us all to report them.

pimmsgalore · 12/04/2012 19:21

the rules have changed anyhow so even if they were hanging on for younger one to finish the school year they will be committing fraud as you can no longer do that, friends of ours had to move at Easter last year even though their youngest was starting boarding school in the September so poor little might went to a new school for a term before starting his new school in the September. They asked to stay put explained the situation and were told it was not in the new rules and therefore move or lose the mobility certificate

Original poster

WhatWillSantaBring · 13/04/2012 09:33

They're living in their own house (well, actually in an annexe to their house, as they've rented out the main bit) and taking a MQ. I suppose if I thought it was just for a few weeks or a term, I'd let it slide but its now so flagrant that it winds me up every time I see them. They're not even pretending!

OP posts:

goinggetstough · 13/04/2012 15:52

Did you phone?

Original poster

WhatWillSantaBring · 26/04/2012 12:04

I've passed the details of the helpline on to my mum who lives in the village where they live in rent out their house. I see them when I go to visit mum at weekends - every time, and she says the wife is there all week, so its clearly a scam. I'm also bitter because apparently they got a MQ in the patch that we wanted, but I think its better if it comes from mum rather than me (she knows their details better). I wonder what will happen...

OP posts:

pimmsgalore · 26/04/2012 21:16

well done whatwill

goinggetstough · 27/04/2012 12:38

Another well done whatwill

fedupwithdeployment · 27/04/2012 12:49

Keep us updated. The rules are so tight that I suspect that action will be taken sooner rather than later if fraud is being committed.

laptopcomputer · 28/04/2012 19:32

Someone I know recently reported someoen to DE for having a quarter when his wife and family cleaely weren't living there with him. DE didn't want to know the name of the person doing the reporting, they just said they would look into it. but 2 weeks later this man was gone, and now a familty who needs it can live in that house. OP, I don't think it matters whether it comes from you or your mum - they are not interested in that.

tismetisme · 21/05/2012 18:21

I think someone needs to clarify the rules and make sure they are published to all. I now know of 2 cases where people are living in quarters during the week and going home to wifey at the weekend whilst still claiming CEA. And they don't seem to think they are doing wrong!

QueenEdith · 21/05/2012 18:26

The rules are very clear already. Claiming ignorance won't wash.

The fraud hotline is in a post higher up the thread. Please use it for the cases you think iffy.

goinggetstough · 21/05/2012 18:29

queen I agree the rules are very clear and each individual has to sign to say that they are accompanied and this form has to be completed every time you are posted. So there really is no excuse!

QueenEdith · 21/05/2012 21:30

There are circumstances in which a bean stealer can claim, for example if the spouse is also in mobile public service, or if the new posting is in the immediate run up to public exams like GCSE. But it's still worth a call to the hotline, as such circumstances can easily be verified.

goinggetstough · 22/05/2012 14:38

Of course there are always the odd exceptions. Can't see why you should be able to stay in a quarter and not move just because of exams though as the idea of CEA is to allow continuity for the child and mobility for the family.

It does though surprise me that when people are caught they are often just asked to pay the money back. They have committed fraud and I am sure in many other civilian jobs would lose their job too. I am not suggesting public floggings for offenders but I think there should be more publicity about the numbers caught and the punishments given as just maybe this would put some people off cheating the system.

tismetisme · 22/05/2012 21:43

You still have to move if your child is in the run up to exams (you are claiming CEA so therefore child is in continuous education)..and if you are a mobile civil servant you still have to move with your serving spouse - I've looked into that one as I'm really looking forward to being in the Redeployment Pool/taking unpaid leave (that's if its approved in the current climate) next time DH moves.

I know there is a rule that states it has to be the families main home (if you are running 2 houses) and that the child has to spend a certain amount of time in the school holidays at that house. This should be made more public so there are no 'grey' areas.

loopydoo · 22/05/2012 23:48

I think you're getting confused with the rule for non-CEA students in state schools. If they are in the run up to GCSEs, then I think you can retain the quarter until after the exams.

QueenEdith · 23/05/2012 07:06

The mobile spouse bit depends on which spouse is in receipt of the CEA, and whether they have postings in the same place.

And the "immediate run up" means what I said, "immediate". The child stays in the school because removing them would smash their continuity just before exams. This is a narrow category. It may apply to tisme's later example if the child is sitting eg GCSEs right now, and the bean stealing began after the start of this term.

pimmsgalore · 23/05/2012 19:05

tismetime it is public its in the JSP and the serving family member can access this at work. My DH printed the whole section on CEA out, put it in a folder and regularly brings home the updates so that I (as the intelligent one) can read through it and make sure we are within the rules claiming the right amounts and not claiming anything that we aren't entitled to (school often tell us we can claim for things we can't!!). It really isn't worth loosing your job over getting it wrong, not knowing isn't an acceptable excuse.

If you think someone is claiming when not entitled then report it, it will be investigated. It may be they have some reason for being in the situation they are in but if they are claiming correctly then being investigated won't bother them as they have nothing to hide. Reporting those who are doing wrong will help all of us, who spend hours checking and rechecking that we are doing it right, to keep the allowance for those that need it.

Flip