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Forces sweethearts

If you have a family member in the Royal Navy, RAF or army, find support from other Mumsnetters here.

SDSR allowances review

39 replies

scaryteacher · 20/01/2011 12:37

Ouch!

Not only a pay freeze, but a cut in the LOA to boot. Belgium rates not yet published, but ouch for Germany,Canada and Cyprus.

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Rocinante · 20/01/2011 17:30

1980chick - that's not a very good analogy. If you work at a law firm, you get paid whether you are working on an external case or doing internal projects not related to your specific qualification. They don't reduce your rate of pay just because you're not engaged on a client.

1980chick · 20/01/2011 17:39

Rocinante- Fair point, long day at work and tired :) but the military expects you to develop your career by moving every couple of years meaning you may not go back to your specialism for some time.

scaryteacher · 20/01/2011 17:54

No, but you aren't likely to be sent back to sea on submarines at the drop of a hat are you? That's the point of specialist pay - my dh could get a pier head jump and be put back in a submarine appointment that requires specialist knowledge. His specialist knowledge has been in use throughout his career - he is employed by the only people operating nuclear submarines in the UK.

If he left the RN then I wouldn't expect him to get specialist pay, just as if you taught instead of being a legal type, you wouldn't be paid for having a law qualification. However, he has been trained to have that specialist knowledge; and specialist pay isn't just about the skills you have to have, but about the conditions one has to put up with whilst doing the job as well.

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LtEveDallas · 20/01/2011 18:11

Deafworm. If your DH needs a passport to go on ops than his unit will pay for it. Likewise if you and children go with him overseas then your passports can also be paid for.

80s, the AFPRB is looking into Spec Pay over the next 2 yrs, decision by Mar 2012. They haven't said either way, if they will get rid, reduce or enhance.

Deafworm · 20/01/2011 20:18

nope LtEve they wont and they didnt, we paid and then claimed back, the same if we go overseas, we have to pay and claim back, the same when they taught him to drive as his ooa requires it, the same when they sent him on a course to a pay as you dine unit the week before payday, for that one we actually had to borrow money as we were in the middle of our holiday at the time and all my normally very carefully budgeted money had been spent on one week of having fun. claiming back is all well and good but i cant get my food shopping and pay the shop later so i have to budget these things in and around our normal bills. i have aproached welfare and rafff about this one already. I guess my point which wasnt clear was the rafff news piece says

"Where possible, allowance savings measures have been taken in accordance with the following principles:
All actual, unavoidable expenses incurred for Service reasons should be reimbursed;
Where expense is incurred for Service reasons but there is some element of choice in incurring this expense, Service Personnel should make a contribution towards it;
Operations, mobility and separation should be the highest priorities for reimbursement;
Lower earners should be protected as much as possible;

the low earners werent being protected in the first place, apart from on the pay freeze granted so i dont feel particularly surprised that they are taking away the one thing aimed at the lowest earners in gyh (ey

LtEveDallas · 20/01/2011 21:15

Deafworm, if you claimed the money back for a passport then the unit did pay for it!

Also, your DH could have put in for an advance prior to his cse etc. As for PAYD, he would have had to eat wherever he was, so I don't understand why that caused a problem. TBH PAYD is one of the fairest inventions for the forces in recent history.

GYH (EY) was always lost after 3 years service. You said yourself that would be this July so all that's happened is that you've lost it 2 months earlier than expected.

Second line of your quote says "All actual, unavoidable expenses incurred for Service reasons should be reimbursed" which it is being (when they pay you back)

Lower earners are being protected. For example they are the only ranks to have their LOA increased, everyone else is taking a cut. They are the only ranks to continue having London allowance, everyone else is being cut.

LtEveDallas · 20/01/2011 21:18

Look, I'm not totally unsympathetic, but you seem to be unhappy about things that could have been controlled earlier and easier with a bit of planning. Is your DHs admin office really shit? Do you need any advice that I may be able to give or find out?

Saltire · 21/01/2011 07:24

I think I know what deafworm is saying. We had a situation where DH had to go to Aldershot(we were in North of Scotland) for a course. They said there was no accomodation at Aldershot. And none at an nearby military bases.
So they put him in an hotel. At a cost of £180 a night. For 21 nights. Now when he got there the hotel aksed for his debit/credit card details. DH said the military was paying. Hotel still said they needed card details otherwise he'd have to pay total amount up frontShock. When the time come to leave, the hotel was going to take the entire amount off his debit card, and when he rang up admin desk they said "oh but it's normal, you pay up front and then claim it back" Dh got onto his boss, and the RAF did pay it there and then, but hotel wouldn't let him leave until it was paid. It was over £3500, who has the sort of money lying around, we don't and I am sure many people in the military don't
Also a friend' sDH is currentl delpoyed, and ahd to make a trip to brussels recently, all of which he had to pay ( 1500 euros) on a credit card to claim back when he gets back.

In both those cases the men were sent to the hotel abd Brussels, they shouldn't have been expected to pay upfront then claim back.
I think this is what deafworm is saying. Sometimes, especailly the lower ranks don't have lots of spare money to fund things that the military send them on, on the assumption that they can claim it back

MrsSnaplegs · 21/01/2011 07:34

Saltire They can claim 80% of the expenses in advance of the trip on JPA, the cash office can help them do this for any trip.

Deafworm · 21/01/2011 08:35

LtEve you are missing my point entirely, claiming it back didnt stop me having to find 10% of DH take home pay for his passport, more than that for his driving and again for his course. as for putting in for money in advance with 24 hrs notice no he couldnt, and yes he would have had to eat wherever he was but i had already bought food shopping for our family and the family staying with us, who very kindly lent him money to pay for food while he was away. I cant comment on PAYD being fair but in this case it didnt feel very fair, 24 hours notice a week before payday in the middle of the summer holidays, we had no money because a low level SAC's wage doesnt go that far which is something i genuinely dont think the policy makers realise because they dont seem to realise (and ive seen this practically day in day out through DH phase 2 training) that people come in with families.

the GYH (EY) doesnt affect us at all as DH goes OOA in april so we will lose it sooner anyway but that doesnt change my point, just because it doesnt affect me anymore doesnt mean i cant think its wrong and feel empathy for those losing the link with their families.

and as i have said i have taken up the reimbursement thing with rafff, its wrong, ive been asked on here before how i feed a family of 5 on £50 a week, its not how thats important its why, because i have to (and thats my problem and one we signed up for i get that). so when my DH has unit staff breathing down his neck asking why he hasnt sorted out his passport yet or his provisional licence finding those figures is stressful. I shouldnt be placed in a position of having to find such a chunk of his incoming wage to fund things for service reasons even if it is just until they pay it back. the very fact that they pay it back says it should be dealt with at the unit without taking money out of my families pockets.

so lower earners in london and in other countries are being protected great, thats brilliant but the lower earners in the middle of nowhere arent.

and thank you for your sympathy but its really not what im after, the admin department are amazing but i have yet to see any department at all at our parent unit do their job properly, hence the 24 hrs notice for a course whilst he was on leave. im sure there are people at that station who do their jobs well but we have yet to encounter any.

Saltire you have hit what im trying to say, its a long standing frustration that has nothing to do with the sdsr apart from illustrating how the military does anything but protect the lowest earners. i hadnt intended to get into an argument about it so i apologise.

I do see that cuts need to be made but i absolutely think gyh (ey) is one of the ones that shouldnt be, just as some are arguing the case for specialist pay which doesnt affect me so i cant comment. most of the rest seems reasonable to me but not that one when they have stated their aim is protecting the lowest earners.

BlueCollie · 21/01/2011 09:02

Deafworm - I understand your point entirely about the whole having to pay up front thing. I have had problems with this in the past and had to end up using a credit card to pay for a week long hotel stay for a couse. I live 60 miles away from my nearest TA unit and work shifts so I don't attend on Tuesdays to put the claim in and it was months before I managed to. I found this difficult financially and at the time I was a single Officer (although NHS nurse so crap wage!) with no kids so why they think it acceptable to send a man with a family on courses and expect them to pay for their own accomodation up front is just madness!

I would love to know how you manage on £50 a week...thats what I have for me and my son and I struggle. Think you need to start a thread on how to shop on a budget as I need some tips Grin

Deafworm · 21/01/2011 09:08

its fairly simple collie we are posted to a town with only a lidl for food shopping, i was pretty snobby about them before i got here now im a huge fan and family and friends who have visited us use them a lot more too! i may just post up my reciept from a full shop in a few weeks though as there have been a few asking!

and i just want to clarify LtEve my argument isnt with you, its with what i see as unfair practices.

Saltire · 21/01/2011 09:22

mrssnapelegs - in teh case of the hotel, DH was assured by the clerk that they would pay it when he checked out. He then had no choice but to hand over his card details when he checked in, they weren't going to let him unless he did that or paid over £300 up front.. If it hadn't been for his boss intervention he'd probably stil be there.

scaryteacher · 21/01/2011 09:26

For those sent to Brussels, their unit should be booking and paying for their hotel and travel beforehand, as happens when my dh travels from Brussels, and they juts claim back their subsitence later, or ask for an advance of pay.

As I understood it at the moment there is a moratorium on overnight stays in Brussels...people are expected to get an early Eurostar and then make their way out to NATO HQ from the centre of town. I know two guys missed a meeting doing that, so that was a waste of their Eurostar ticket. I fully expect to be asked to host those attending meetings from the UK at some stage.

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