What do you think are the barriers to eating real food?

[diapergenie]

I am doing some research and I would be eternally grateful if any of you home cooks could give me your opinions on what you think the difficulties (if any) are with feeding yourselves and your families a really good fresh food diet.

Basically, we all know that food poverty is a reality amongst lower income groups in our country. As I am single mother on benefits, we are classed as a low-income family and we eat like kings, but only because I have been cooking all my life and am food-obsessed enough to know exactly where to go and what to do to make the most of our limited resources. For me, the pursuit of good food is a full-time occupation, but I understand that most people just do not have the time, energy, resources and (perhaps) inclination to do the same.

It worries me that the current level of welfare benefits do not permit low-income families with children or pregnant women and girls to eat what I regard to be an adequately healthy diet unless they already possess cooking skills, (which have been completely phased out in most state schools) equipment and a hell of a lot of time and passion.

The Food Poverty Network

As people who cook real food, how much time do you
spend?

Do you have to really go out of your way to get good, unpolluted fresh food?

Does buying fresh food and the consumption of time involved with producing meals put you out of pocket?

What do you think you need to spend each week to feed your family fresh every day?

Why do you think it is that we have such a pathetically non-existent food culture in Britain, as opposed to, for example, France or Italy, where the vast majority of the population eat wonderfully good food.

What kind of objections have you heard people giving to the idea of eating well?

Obviously, this is not a particularly structured form or research - I just want to pick your brains, if that is ok.

What do you do with your kids while you are cooking and preparing food, especially if they are too young to help?

Does the amount of time you spend cooking have an impact upon the amount of attention your children get from you? Does this matter anyway?

In our early days it was a source of real tension and we nearly split up over it. I used to try and cook for him and do meals that we could all eat togther. But he hates my cooking, which I took as a real insult as I am a good cook and have always looked after people by feeding them. I am the sort of person who will turn up at your house with homebaked cookies or a cake. I love my food, I probably live to eat whereas to him food is just fuel.

I have just chilled out about it and realised there is more to a person that what they eat. We don't eat togther, he sits at the table with dd and I while we have our tea and has a cup of coffee, he eats later on his own.

Going to a restaurant togther is always interesting

yeah right TSAP

have a dear friend who has a bad eating disorder (eats mainly white bread and cheese - and very very little else)

it would have freaked me but his partner has stuck by him - quite rightly cos he's a lovely bloke

albeit with odd eating habits

btw my mate can eat at an indian

he has a chapatti to start followed by a naan

lol

My dp doesn't have an eating disorder he just wasn't fed as a child. His mum and dad were both alcaholics so left him to feed himself. The only money he had as what he could beg for, so he hardly had money to buy gourmet food. There was rarely gas or electric in the house so he ate what he could heat over a fire in the yard. Ocacsionally he would treat himself to a bag of chips. Hence now he eats the crap that he does.

As people who cook real food, how much time do you
spend?

The cooking doesn't take long at all. Perhaps we have just got used to it. Shopping takes longer.

Do you have to really go out of your way to get good, unpolluted fresh food? I don't know. I stopped buying supermarket organic and now buy non-organic at a low-key grocery shop. I make the assumption that because the fruit and veg is mishapen and ripe to eat, it has probably come from localish farms and their use of pesticides is hopefully lower.

Failing that, we'd get an organic box delivered but that works out better during the winter months for us as we make soup from anything we don't like!

Does buying fresh food and the consumption of time involved with producing meals put you out of pocket?

In my opinion no. I think our greater expense comes from buying healthy extras like snacks and drinks, i.e. brands of ice cream without e numbers and trans fats - that kind of thing.

What do you think you need to spend each week to feed your family fresh every day?

Hmmm, this is so subjective. I am certain that it is cheaper to cook from raw ingredients. We personally must spend about £250 per month on food for a family of 3. I don't think that is a lot.

Why do you think it is that we have such a pathetically non-existent food culture in Britain, as opposed to, for example, France or Italy, where the vast majority of the population eat wonderfully good food?

I wish I knew? Have we ever had a passion for food in this country?

What kind of objections have you heard people giving to the idea of eating well?

Time and money. Plus, so many people don't know how to cook.

What do you do with your kids while you are cooking and preparing food, especially if they are too young to help?

Both my husband and I share the cooking so usually one entertains our dd or is putting her to bed whilst the other is cooking dinner. A lot of our meals don't take very long to cook and DD is able to entertain herself or watch TV whilst the meal is prepared.

Hope that helps.

teehee @ philippat

ah well

see how much you are all enjoying it after 16 years of marriage

I'm off

xxx

Flr, my dd is only 2.5, but i have lived with dp for nearly 10 years and have always done most of the cooking and still enjoy it!

The addition of dd makes absolutely no difference, when she was weaning i just blended bits of our dinner, and then she went straight onto eating our meals once she was eating lumps. I will never get in the habit of cooking seperate meals and so she will never have the opportunity to become fussy, if she does she'll have to go hungry!

'As people who cook real food, how much time do you
spend?'
We are two greedy grown-ups with four hungry kids and spend around 3 hours a day cooking, eating and clearing up our meals.

'Do you have to really go out of your way to get good, unpolluted fresh food'?
I find this very easy. We have an organic veg and fruit boxes delivered, grow some veg and berries in our allottment, and buy meat at an organic butcher up the road. My family eat meat once or twice a week and I'm veggie.
I do and fotnightly internet shop of Waitrose/Sainsbury/Asda (depending on cash flow) for dry goods, tins and packets.
I bake my own bread once a week. I also bake wheat-free, dairy-free stuff because of family food intolerances. The less money we have, the more I bake. I feel we need treats when we're poor.
Now and again we have fish and chips or curry delivered.

'Does buying fresh food and the consumption of time involved with producing meals put you out of pocket'?
Our cash flow is extremely unpredictable as my dh is self employed. I think food costs what it costs and when we're very hard up (like now) we eat lots of rice, beans and pulses. Some of our best meals are when we're poor because we're forced to be creative. Whe we're better off we'll have posh cheeses and dh will have more meat.

'Why do you think it is that we have such a pathetically non-existent food culture in Britain, as opposed to, for example, France or Italy, where the vast majority of the population eat wonderfully good food'.
We're not good at looking after ourselves. Our culture comes from a puritanical background with a strong work ethic which leaves little time for things which might be seen as selfish or frivilous. I think.

'What kind of objections have you heard people giving to the idea of eating well'?
Mainly that they don't know how to cook well and even if they did they wouldn't have the time.

'What do you do with your kids while you are cooking and preparing food, especially if they are too young to help'?
Doing their own thing, playing or watching telly. But they LOVE helping and I believe it'll pay off to get them involved young.

'Does the amount of time you spend cooking have an impact upon the amount of attention your children get from you? Does this matter anyway'?

Yes it does. I reckon they get enough attention though because dh is around a fair bit. I admit it's very tough when he's working away and I'm on my own. I have to cut down on cooking times then and we don't eat so well.

I couldn't eat processed foods and when I've tried to give it to my kids they're not at all impressed, and they're hungry again in no time. Also, it's much more expensive, with far fewer ingredients, and far more packaging.

I don't spend that much time because I am trying to time manage more effectively, by cooking large batches at one time and freezing. So although I may take a half an hour three times a week to prepare and cook meals, I know that there are good ready meals in the freezer. Also I tend to cook things which take very little time, like that perfect fast food, pasta. (Which my DS would eat every meal if I let him.)

I think about £40 per week is probably enough to buy reasonably decent food for the week, but that's not counting "store cupboard" items like spices, tins of tomatoes, mustard etc. Obviously those aren't bought every week so don't impact the budget regularly. Theoretically it's enough, but I do often go over that to £50 or above.

The amount of time I spend cooking does sometimes have an impact on the amount of attention my kids get from me, but that's not my fault - I do sometimes try and involve them, and DD will like to get involved, but DS will mostly prefer to watch TV.

Food culture - I blame Isabella Beaton.
I actually think the prevalence of ready meals is a sign that people want to eat good food that tastes of something, but are too disempowered to know how to do it themselves. Blame the disappearence of cooking from the school curriculum. Plus the longest working hours in Europe - it is very difficult to foster a good food culture in your family if you don't get home from work until 7 O'Clock. When I worked in London, after battling with the tube, the last thing I wanted to do was cook, even something quick like pasta. Now that I work part time from home, I have the energy to stand on my feet for the fifteen minutes it takes to put something healthy together. I simply couldn't face it four years ago - all I wanted to do was collapse onto the sofa with something I just had to put onto a plate.

Plus the crappy attitudes to food - my DS often doesn't finish his mid morning snack or lunch at school "because there wasn't time" - lets make them wolf it down as quickly as possible so that they have no time to taste it and appreciate it. Eating is inefficient and time wasted. And how many cafes serve food with plastic cutlery and polystyrene cups which make the drinks taste of polystyrene? It doesn't matter if you order tea, coffee or hemlock, it all tastes of polystyrene.

That's all I can think of atm!

The one thing I'd like to throw in here is the gender dimension; because there's a lot talked about 'losing cooking skills' and somewhere around that cliche there is an implication that it is women who aren't cooking because we're selfishly going out to work and/or refusing to spend a lot of time in the kitchen.

Caligula, I hate schools getting kids to wolf there dinners down as quickly as possible. Time after time my dd has not eateb her packed lunch because the nursery staff have told her there isn't enough time.

Not enough time FFS, they are 3 what on earth have they got to get done???!!

MI, of course it is women who are losing cooking skills because men on the whole, never had them to lose.

And of course when both adults in the house are going out to work, and both are out of the house for between 8 and 12 hours, then no-one has the time or the energy to do the cooking, or to involve their kids in the cooking - it takes much longer to cook when your kids are "helping" and learning and when you're tired and it's late, it's just not practical to involve them.

That doesn't mean that women are selfish for going to work - but of course the issue of work and food are linked. (I remember my colleagues from our Paris office were always horrified by our habit of eating sandwiches at our desks and calling it lunch. They thought we were absolute savages.)

MI, I'm amazed by the amount of couples i know where it's the bloke that doesall the cooking.
Seems to be the case on MN too.
I have a wonderful completely house trained gourmet (ok..gourmand) dh, but he won't cook!
Still,he's more than happy to do all the dirty work and clean up so I can't complain too much.
Wish he'd realize how seductive I'd find it though..

Mysister never cooks as her Korean dh hates European food. We are constantly wangling invitations to stay....

I completely take your point, Caligula.

I forced my partner to learn to cook. He's now quite good at it. But he was thirty-five when I met him, ffs, what had he been living on [shudder]?

DP's mum - who admittedly spent many years living in countries where most middle-class working women paid someone else to do the cooking for them - always tells me how much she admires me for cooking, which drives me effing bonkers.

WellMI,arguably that's better than her expecting you to cook for him.

Yes, except she also now has this sentimental narrative about how he learned to cook to 'care for me and dd1' whereas in fact he learned to cook because I bellowed at him a lot.

Bellowing works doesn't it? I also taught xp to cook (28 when I met him ffs - why the hell didn't I just drive on by?) and by the time we split, his curries were quite definitely better than mine. In fact, it's probably the only time I miss him!

My dh is a better cook than I. He's really inspiring. He does it intuitively and creatively, with whatever ingredients we have to hand.

I cook decent, homely food. Always healthy, sometimes a bit boring. I'm great at baking though, and cook well from recipe books.

I really believe eating good, freshly prepared food gives you more energy. People have come to believe it's all about stopping the feeling of hunger. It should be more about real, tailor-made nourishment.

Time spent: for main meals between half and three quarters of an hour on average. I do this genreally 3 times a week and double up and freeze half because I work 3 days a week and don't get home until nearly 6. The other day we might visit family, cook something that won't freeze or eat out/buy Asda curry. For lunches 15 minutes max.

I don't go out of my way to buy food at all. I do a once weekly internet shop and buy all I need from Asda. I don't do organic but nor do I do ready food (Asda curry once every 5/6 weeks). Suppose you wouldn't call that organic.

At the moment we are trying to cut back our expenditure due to overspending on holiday. I have set myself a budget of £60 a week to feed DH, me, DS (4) and DD (15 months), this also includes booze and toiletries (nappies, wipes, DS's vitamins). This week it cost me £55 and included a box and a bottle of wine. But today we visited family for lunch.

I think the main factors are lack of cooking skills, lack of family meals and lack of time.

My kids are 4 and 1. Quite often I do the preparation of a meal while DD is having her nap (eg cut veg etc) and DS will play happily on his own (usually play with him first). Sometimes I encourage him to help me (always with baking/mixing type things). But I sometimes start from scratch in the evening and of course usually I have something to do then even if it is just boil some pasta. DD will either play out (can see her from the kitchen window) or quite often she likes to sit in her booster chair with a drink and a bread stick/rice cake and watch me. When DS was that age he used to spend the time emptying the plastic things out of the cupboard. When he got a bit older I used to run some water in the middle sink and give him some untensils to play with.

Cooking time only a problem if children too hungry/tired.

Think I must be going wrong somewhere. DH makes breakfast and thats it! And thats only really so we don't get under each other's feet and I could get on with feeding DD. Only now she can feed herself so I'm employed in mess limitation - getting the stray weetabix before it sets. So he makes DD some watered down apple juice and juice for the rest of us, then DD's weetabix, DS's weetabix with raisins, my porridge with syrup, his bran flakes with raisins, gets a big yoghurt for DS and a small one for DD and thats it. Oh yes, he makes himself plain cheese sandwiches to take to work.

But the only way to get an improvement would be to yell at him repeatedly and I can't really be bothered. Do feel a bit bitter towards my MIL about it though.

You're so right about catching the weetabix before it sets!

Message withdrawn

spidermama, twinsetandpearls and caligula on food culture (or painful lack of):

(Sorry to get all heavy and academic - don't read this if you have a headache - but I cannot resist the opportunity to wax lyrical on any subject these days. I think I need to remind my brain that it is still capable of rational argument.)

I agree that we can blame this partly upon the nasty and pernicious concept of the Protestant work ethic. But also I think that the majority of British people, at least English people, are faintly embarrassed about being British because of our colonial past. I think that the idea of nationalism equates in many peoples minds with racism (we hear the echoes of jackboots on the pavement), and pride in a food culture is all tied up with ideas about national pride. In my experience, people whose families migrated here last century (I am thinking about friends of mine who originate from India, Austria, Poland, Russia, Italy, Cyprus and Malaysia) retain a much greater appreciation, love and respect for food and its traditions because there is a sense of wanting to celebrate, (or at least commemorate) their history, not sweep it under the carpet like the English do. However, I do see that, probably starting with the Baby Boomers, there is a general decline of interest in food culture (whether you read that to mean the 'culinary arts' or simply the ability to recognise and appreciate the difference between nourishing food and nutritionally crap food, and why that matters) in Britain, no matter what ethnic, national or religious background we come from. I am sure you are right when you say it is all to do with our long working hours. I have had many jobs where people are atually ashamed to be seen taking a lunch break! Time only for a vile rocket fuel coffee which burns your throat because you have to neck it straight from the machine and as many fags as you can smoke in 5 minutes.
And, TSAP, the nursery thing. I worked part time in a creche in a Cannons Health Club a few years back, and it was exactly the same. And that was just a creche! Even an establishment like that which is not intended to be the main provider of childcare for any of the kids who visit it is so hampered by bureauocratic guidelines on how much each child needs to 'achieve' in each session that 'drinks and biscuits' (orange squash and Rich Tea - just as well they didn't get time to eat it) is allocated 5 minutes in between 'outside play'(frogmarched between slide and seesaw) and 'storytime' (a Beastie Boys-on-50-cups-of-coffee-speed rendition of Elmer).
Grrr.
The End.

Good post diaperqenie.