making bread...i just cant make it edible!

[nomorecake]

i have tried to make bread several times(by hand, i dont have a machine) but despite being told how easy and tasty it is, my loaves always taste a bit raw, they are too dense, dont rise much in the oven and dont brown well.

am i not kneeding enough? kneeding too much? is it the oven? should i leave it to rise for longer?

i have tried these recipes recently but without luck.

help me please!!
TIA

Here is my recipe:

Put about half a packet of strong bread flour in a bowl.
Add a teaspoonful or one sachet of dried yeast and a pinch each of salt and sugar.
Now: here is the secret- crush up a couple of vitamin C tablets and mix them in. I don't know why this works, but it does, and makes the bread a lot lighter.
Stick about three or four wooden spoonfuls of oil in (I use olive oil, but I reckon you could use any kind of vegetable oil)
Next you need some water at blood temperature. I find about one third water out of the kettle and two thirds out of the cold tap works ok. You'll need about three quarters of a pint ish.
Add the water bit by bit, mixing the dough as you go. You need it to stick together and look like, well, dough.
Find a nice clean surface (I give my kitchen table a good scrub and dry, you need space) and throw some flour on it, spreading it about with your hands so your hands get all floury (you might want to wear an apron as the flour gets everywhere, plus you get to feel all farmer's wife about it all)
Put your dough on the table and knead it, adding more flour to any sticky bits.
(kneading is basically taking out any pent up anger on the bread, stretch it, punch it, give it a deep massage, just don't be wimpy about it)
Put the dough back in the bowl, put a clean tea towel over it and leave in a warm place until it doubles in size.
(Good warm places are on top of agas, in front of fires, in airing cupboards.)
When it has doubled in size, take it out and knead it again, adding more flour if sticky.
Throw a bit of flour into a couple of small bread tins and put half the dough in each. Put the teatowel over these and return to the warm place.
When the dough has risen again to about double its size, pop the loaves into an oven at a medium hot temperature until they look cooked and sound hollow when tapped.

thank you for taking the time to reply ButterPie!

going over your recipe, i think my water may have been too hot, maybe i wasnt firm enough with my kneading and maybe oven was too hot.

and obviously i have never tried your secret ingredient!

looks like i should try again.

thanks again!

I make the New York Times no-knead method now, never any other. There's a YouTube video on it.

Works a treat ever time.

Your oven needs to be really hot too.

Your recipe is a fairly standard basic recipe and it should work (although it won't be very tasty). It sounds like you aren't cooking the bread for long enough or hot enough (have you checked that your oven is hot enough?). I usually bake at least at 225, fan forced. Also you probably aren't leaving the dough to prove for long enough. Is it doubling before you shape it? And again before you bake it?

The way to get tasty bread is to make the dough take longer to rise. The longer it takes the better the bread tastes (that's why sourdough is the best). You can do this by reducing the amount of yeast, refrigerating dough or by starting with a sponge. A sponge means you mix part of the flour, yeast and water and leave it to stand for a while before you mix in the rest.

This is my favourite recipe from Rose Levy Berenbaum's Bread Bible. I've simplified it a bit because it's three pages in the book.

Mix 156 gm bread flour, 36 g whole wheat flour, 1/2 tsp instant yeast, 1 1/4 tsp honey, 322 gm water at room temperature Leave for one to four hours.

Add another 292 g bread flour, 1/2 tsp instant yeast and 1 1/2 tsp salt.

Knead (it is a sticky dough), let rise till double, shape or put in loaf tin, let rise again until double, bake it oven preheated to 250 degrees.

Also agree you don't actually need to knead much. I sometimes use a folding method where you mix the ingredients together, let them rest for about 30 min then stretch the dough out into a rectangle and fold it in three like a letter and again in the other direction. You repeat this twice more after 20-30 min waits.

hth - baking is my main way to avoid housework - mn is my backup

You could try this

Ooops sorry - wrong thread

oh my poor EYES!!
Claudia- why would you be posting that pic in recipes??!!

thanks meltedmarsbar and trying to leave will take a look at both of your suggestions.

right..back to washing out my eyes!

Richard Bertinet's method for mixing and kneading dough has worked well for my DH. There's a DVD which is brilliant showing the technique. It is probably similar to tryingtoleaves.

DH says:
If you can get hold of fresh yeast (can be got from bakery at Tesco) then that seems to give much tastier results.
Using a bread stone (granite chopping block £10 from Wilko or Tescos) and preheating it in the oven will give the bread a much better rise during cooking as there's heat coming from underneath.
Also Dan Lepard's forum is useful.
Oven thermometers - the dial is often inaccurate.

TOP THREE ESSENTIAL BREAD BOOKS:

1. Dough by Richard Bertinet.
2. The Handmade Loaf by Dan Lepard.
3. Handmade Breads: Simple Techniques for Baking Better Bread by Ciril Hitz.

A book for the more serious bread-head, with exhaustive descriptions for every stage of the bread making process. The writer assumes the reader wants to make their dough in a mixer. A better way of doing it is to apply Bertinet and Lepard's hand-mixing techniques to Hitz's recipes and you get to make some classic French and Italian bread. We've just had a look at the recipe you've been using and he suggests room temp water not hand hot. Oven probably a bit hotter - up 250-260, put the loaf in and then after 5 mins turn the temp down to 220. Use the conventional setting not the fan. Keep trying, as it's definitely worth it.

The Grant Loaf is also a no-knead - works ok. I add a little milk (about 1 tablespoon) to the dough to get rid of the 'yeasty' taste.

I also mix flours - mainly start with white and add kamut, wholemeal, spelt... (about 2-thirds white and one third 'other') to keep it light. You could club a baby seal to death with a 100% kamut loaf (well, mine anyway).

I second the Dan Lepard book. Also free guide. It is the most used book in our house.