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Original poster

Cheese sauce

27 replies

Chinchilla · 06/04/2003 19:42

All you gourmet chefs out there, please give me some help. I always make a cheese sauce that is lovely and thick in the pan. However, when I cook it with something, it seperates, and I am left with a watery mess. Last time, I thought that my cauliflower may have absorbed too much water during cooking, so today I put it raw in the dish, and poured the thick sauce over it. It still seperated!

Am I using too much butter? Do I need to make it even thicker in the first place? I have looked a recipe up on the internet, and I seem to be doing the method right, but I never weigh any of my ingredients, so maybe I am getting the proportions wrong? Any ideas?

OP posts:
bunny2 · 06/04/2003 19:46

are you using skimmed milk - I can never make a good sauce without semi or full fat

Original poster
Chinchilla · 06/04/2003 19:50

No, full fat

OP posts:
snickers · 06/04/2003 19:59

Not sure what method you are using, but if you are using cornflour try making it with plain flour instead. Sometimes I find with cornflour, it goes through the thick phase and out the other side...? Either make a roux, or do the delia thing by just chucking everything in a pan, and stirring until everything has melted into the milk and just make sure you cook the sauce for a little while after thickening to ensure the taste of the flour is cooked away.

Original poster
Chinchilla · 06/04/2003 20:01

No, I always use plain flour too!

OP posts:
Demented · 06/04/2003 20:38

Chinchilla, I am no gourmet chef but here is what I do, hopefully it will be of some help. I go on the basis of 1 oz butter, 1 oz plain flour to 1/2 pint of hot milk (usually heat it in the microwave first, don't find it makes a huge amount of difference if I use full-fat or sem-skimmed), obviously you can multiply these ingredients up the more sauce you need. Melt the butter, put in the flour and let it sizzle a bit then start adding the hot milk, stirring each time until it comes together and is smooth, when all the milk is gone and the sauce is hopefully thick add some mustard or nutmeg and cheese. I've never had cheese sauce split but every now and again it doesn't thicken enough. HTH

tomps · 06/04/2003 20:42

If the sauce is thick in the pan you're doing it right - your experience and judgement is more accurate than weighing ingredients. For cauli cheese, I would just say if the cauli's cooked and the sauce is cooked, they only need heating together - with maybe some more cheese on top - under the grill. So no opportunity for the sauce to separate. Where the sauce meets any excess cooking water in the bottom of the dish, it will separate, but you should be able to mix it back up as you serve it. HTH

jasper · 06/04/2003 22:27

I saw Nick Nairn recantly say you should continue to ccok a white sauce for 15 (yes, fifteen, seems a lot)minutes after it had thickened to make sure all the flour granules had done whatever it is they do.Then stir in the cheese and heat through.
For cauli cheese, parboil your cauli and then drain well and leave it in the pot over a very low heat to make sure all the excess miosture has evaporated otherwise some will come out in the oven and separate the suace.
Good luck

janh · 07/04/2003 14:54

I haven't made cauli cheese for years (too many people in the house who don't like it, dratted kids) but when I used to make it my recipe (from a Penguin beginners' book) said heat for 5 minutes, to stop it being floury, and take it off the heat before you put the cheese in, so it just melts in the residual heat.

(We used to have it with grilled tomatoes and bacon...mmmm...maybe I should make it for us and send them to the chippie!)

Original poster
Chinchilla · 07/04/2003 18:44

Thanks everyone. I will try cooking the flour for longer, and then just grill the dish, instead of cooking it. I had wondered whether the sauce had been cooked for long enough.

I knew you would all help!

OP posts:
Original poster
Chinchilla · 09/04/2003 20:47

Again, thamks everyone, especially Tomps and Jasper. I made a sauce today, and cooked it (once thickened) for 10 minutes. It got even thicker, so it goes to show that the flour needs to do its 'thang'! I can report on a totally creamy and non-split sauce, even with the cauliflower pre-cooked...

I do have a life by the way!

OP posts:
jasper · 09/04/2003 23:00

Your place for tea on Friday

SamboM · 10/04/2003 14:35

As long as you cook the butter and flour mixture gently for a few minutes before adding the milk you shouldn't get this problem. I seem to remember from o level cookery about 100 years ago that this expands the gluten and if it isn't expanded then you will either get lumpy sauce or it will separate.

We have it with bacon and tomatoes too and it's yum.

SamboM · 10/04/2003 14:36

BTW does anyone know if it's ok for babies to have unpasteurised cheese?

Meanmum · 10/04/2003 14:54

They say its not good, I think until they are about 1, but I gave mine brie and camembert when he was 6 months with no lasting side effects.

It's your choice, as everything is of course. He did have side effects at the way I cooked it as it had loads of garlic in it. My advice, don't feed them garlic until they are older as you have to deal with the consequences!!!

For your info, I buy a block of brie or camembert in a wooden container, unwrap it, put it back in the bottom half of the container, put slices all over the top, cut slivers of garlic and put these in the slices, put rosemary shards in the cuts with the garlic, liberally (loads and loads) put jam of one description or another on the top, strawberry or cranberry sauce work best, put the top back on and bake it until the inside is runny. Buy a big french stick and rip pieces off dipping in the middle. You'll get bits of the jam, garlic rosemary and loads of lovely cheese which is all runny on it.

mum2toby · 10/04/2003 15:17

Meanmum - what are the consequences of giving them garlic?? I'm all worried now... my ds has had garlic added to food since he was weaned! In fact if he was fussy about something then I would add garlic to it and he would munch the lot! What have I done?????

Meanmum · 10/04/2003 15:28

No dire consequences in terms of health mine just ate too much in the cheese I cooked and it gave him such a bad tummy I was up with him all night and then dealt with it in his nappy for the next day.

jasper · 10/04/2003 21:15

Excuse me Meanmum, some of us are trying to lose weight
That sounds too flippin' delicious for words.

Meanmum · 10/04/2003 21:20

Jasper - it's the easiest thing to make as well. Not what you want to hear I know. Don't worry I'm seriously trying to lose weight and seriously not succeeding.

If you ever have friends around and no time for a first course put this in about 45 minutes before you want to eat or they are due.

I always have a frozen one in my freezer. Defrosts no problem with no consequences and cooks like normal.

tomps · 10/04/2003 23:17

The problem with unpasteurised cheese is you run a higher risk of listeria poisoning which is bad news for people with less immunity - young / old / pregnant / sick. I think you remove that risk if the cheese is cooked as you've killed the bacteria.

meanmum - how long does your delicious recipe need cooking ? i want to try it

jasper · 10/04/2003 23:38

meanmum I have been thinking about your jammy cheese all night ( while eating my low fat yoguurt - bleagh).
Can you explain more.
Do you mean a block of brie in one of those thin circular wooden boxes about the size of a CD or is it something bigger? How much garlic and how much jam?
Doesn't it all run out the box or is that part of the appeal?

tomps · 22/04/2003 20:48

jasper, I tried this at the weekend with a small camembert in a box (which I think is what meanmum meant). I used a clove of garlic, sliced thinly, and about 4 teaspoons of jam. Cooked it at 180 for 20ish minutes (there was a recipe for quick cheese 'fondue' in the box, so I used their temperature and timing) and it was all melty and nice. Two problems - after 20 mins the garlic is not cooked of course, so maybe I used too much, it was a bit overpowering by the end of it ! Maybe cooking it longer on a lower heat is better ? Also - the glue holding the box together melted (yuk !) so the box fell apart - which was OK because the 'skin' of the cheese held it together and I'd wrapped the lot in tin foil, but it smelt (sp?) v bad. Don't know how you get round that one ?

jasper · 22/04/2003 22:03

tomps I've been trying to lose weight so long that even glue mixed with jammy cheese sounds scrumptious

Cha · 27/04/2003 18:23

If anyone wants a quickie cheese sauce for cauli / macaroni cheese - Delia has one. All you need is creme fraiche (sp?) and grated cheese. Just warm it through enough for the cheese to melt, pour it over the pre cooked veg / pasta, et voila! I have had better success for some strange reason with the low fat variety, the full fat one went all curdly the one time I used it. But maybe I cooked it too long?
I have not tried to use it with things like lasagne as I suspect cooking it in the oven would lose it's thickness?

tomps · 29/04/2003 07:50

Cha, I think you're right. Jasper - unless you're desparate for that special glue kick, buy a french camembert - Inoticed their boxes are stapled instead of glued together ! I am not obsessed ! Ditch the diet and try it

jasper · 29/04/2003 22:01

okay. Seeing as I weave my own hair shirts I think I am due a treat

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