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reassure my partner veggie is ok

119 replies

hollya · 22/02/2005 16:06

hi, i'm new here and am a veggie, have been since i was 8. please can someone with vegetarian children tell me that they are healthy and well.
my partner doesn't agree with bringing up our baby as vegetarian and it is really irritating me as i know it is a very healthy and normal way of life.
our baby isn't born yet (due may 9th), but this is creating issues already.
someone help!!!

OP posts:
SeaShells · 23/02/2005 20:48

"great protein fiasco"...a mistaken belief of many Westerners that they need to consume large quantities of protein. This myth, propagated as much as a century ago by health officials and governmental dietary guidelines, has resulted in us eating twice as much protein as we need! Due to the excessively high levels of saturated fat that accompany the protein in meat, diseases such as heart disease, strokes and various cancers are now leading causes of death in western societies!!!
I don't understand why choosing to be vegetarian is depriving our children, all I think I am depriving them from is health problems in later life!

stupidgirl · 23/02/2005 20:49

There are some excellent posts here. I've been veggie from age 9 and my children - aged 6 and 3, have been veggie since birth. They have also been very healthy and had fewer illnesses than most of their friends.

Veggies frequently get accused of putting their kids at risk, but having chosen to avoid meat, why would I let my kids have it? IMHO it would be irresponsible to avoid it for myself and then feed it to my children. There is a whole list of nasty diseases (various cancers, heart disease, diabetes, etc) which are more prevalent in meat eaters than veggies.

There is also the issue of the amount of chemicals and hormones pumped into meat. Personally, I find the idea of feeding a baby meat quite sickening.

My parents eat meat and we often eat Sunday dinner with them, so my kids are very much aware that their diet is 'different.' I have explained to them why we don't eat meat (that we don't need to eat it and that I feel it's wrong to kill animals to eat) and they have accepted that. Ds will check ingredients in foods to decide whether he can eat them. They have occasionally chosen sweets or cakes with animal products in, and I have told them so - a couple of times they have wanted them anyway (and been allowed), usually they choose something else. I wouldn't be happy if they wanted to eat meat, rather than just lecithin or whey, or whatever, but that hasn't arisen yet. I won't ever cook meat for them, if they choose to eat meat when they are old enough to cook for themselves, then that is their decision, however, if I have achieved what I want to with my kids then that won't happen.

How can anyone find the term 'lump of dead cow' offensive, when that is exactly what meat is?

HappyMumof2 · 23/02/2005 21:04

Message withdrawn

vess · 23/02/2005 21:20

Personally I don't find 'lump of dead cow' offencive. Things are what they are.
And there's no doubt that eating too much meat, especially bad quality, is, or can be, harmfull.
What I really wanted to know was how do you go from that to 'even the smalest occasional bite of any meat is bad and harmfull'.
Not that I'm a huge meat fan myself... I don't actually like meat, so I'm not going to go on about how good it is for you. It's the strictness and the moral point of some people's vegetarianism that I wanted to ask about...
By the way, when I have a party or people round I always make sure it's only vegetarian stuff - there's so many nice things you can do with vegetables.

zippy539 · 23/02/2005 21:30

Vess - regarding your question 'does being a veggie make you a better person?'. Given that I am a complete hyprocrite (see earlier post) I'm not really in a good position to answer this, but the way I see it is - I have chosen not to eat meat because I have thought about it (ie realised that a bit of meat is an animal and often one which has had a shitty life - sounds obvious but I'm not sure it is to a lot of people )

I don't feel I am a 'better person' for not eating meat, but I guess I do feel that I am a person who has made the connection. I don't mean that to sound patronising, but I think I probably do feel slightly more 'evolved' than people like my FIL who clearly thinks I am barmy and depriving myself. Not saying I am 'superior' - Gawd no. Just that while some people (ie my FIL) look at me and think 'oh what a shame, she's depriving herself', I look back at them and think 'oh what a shame, he's supposed to be a bright man but he hasn't thought this through'. I guess that makes me a bit sactimonious but it gets me through a lot of dinners at my in-laws!

vess · 23/02/2005 21:30

HappyMumof2, sorry - didn't mean to insult you - I was only asking questions, not making statements. Especially not statements like: "...most meat eaters simply can not be bothered to think in any great detail about their diet" and "...they are just disturbed by the idea that they are putting something un neccessary into their children, but can't be bothered not to", and also "...a healthy,balanced diet, which is more than can be said for most meat eaters"

zippy539 · 23/02/2005 21:33

Sorry - might have insulted a lot of meat eaters in that last post. Don't mean to. I think everyone has the absolute right to make their own choices - just mean to say that choosing to eat meat is as much of decision as choosing not to.

zippy539 · 23/02/2005 21:36

Can you tell I'm a woolly vegetarian type from the amount of smilies in my posts ?

SeaShells · 23/02/2005 21:48

I agree Zippy, I don't get why eating meat is considered the norm and anyone who chooses to not eat meat is considered different
Why do vegetarians have to justify the reasons why they don't eat meat, isn't it an equal choice, I choose to not eat meat, others choose to eat meat!

For the meat eaters, what are the moral and nutritional pro's which made you decide to eat meat?

vess · 23/02/2005 21:50

By the way, I've noticed that some people like meat more than others and perhaps need it more - can't prove it with research, though.
Different people, different body types. For some people probably won't be right to exist on a vegetarian diet, whereas others might thrive on it. From a health point of view I think we'll all agree that both veg and non-veg diets can be healthy and ballanced.
About children in particular, I've allways thought that they are born with a natural instinct to know what their bodies need, and as long as you offer them plenty of healthy choices and leave them to it, they should be fine. Just a personal oppinion.
Have to go now!

zippy539 · 23/02/2005 21:54

Hollya - you might be new but you certainly know how to start a thread! How much discussion have you had with your partner on this issue? How determined is he/ are you?

stupidgirl · 23/02/2005 22:05

Vess, to me it's not a case that the tiniest bite of meat is harmful, I just have no desire to put meat into my body or my children's bodies.

I am veggie for moral reasons, I hate the idea of putting flesh in my mouth, I don't want animals to suffer and die for me.

Also, have to say I agree with Zippy's take on 'being a better person.' I must admit I do feel slightly...smug? Right the way through my life, I try and reduce my negative impact on the world as much as I can. Animals aren't suffering for me to eat something entirely unecessary. To follow that point through I should be vegan, I used to be, but it was too bloody difficult.

oops · 23/02/2005 22:25

Message withdrawn

hollya · 23/02/2005 22:30

wow!!
thanx for the advice everyone. i've just sat down with the laptop and shown dp all the posts, i still don't think he's convinced, but i'm sure he'll come around.
starry you raise a good point about your iron levels in prenancy. both blood tests i have had so far have shown my iron levels to be perfectly healthy. if my baby eats the diet i eat i'm sure she will have no problems at all!!
i think i'll just have to stick to my guns and be prepared for some arguements (which i'm sure i'll win!!).

OP posts:
stupidgirl · 23/02/2005 22:31

Thank you Oops

zippy539 · 23/02/2005 22:40

Right - this is my last post on the matter. When I was pg with both ds and dd my iron levels were checked as a matter of course and both times the MW remarked that they were freakishly high - which considering I am a non lentil eating veggie I was V proud of. Then when I had DD I had a spectacular PPH ( can't spell heamorrage but it was so spectacular it involved litres and litres of blood transfusion) all the docs said, 'wow - you have an amazing iron level!'. And that's on macaroni cheese .... Right. That's it.

Matonic · 23/02/2005 22:43

Seashells asked about the moral and nutritional pros and cons of eating meat. As a meat-eater - which sounds slightly odd to me as it implies I eat nothing but! - we eat a bit of everything: meat, fish, dairy, nuts, seeds, grains, vegetables, fruit. We do this because a) I believe that we've evolved as omnivores and therefore the best possible diet is one that encompasses as wide a variety as possible; b) because we believe that this is the best way to get all the nutrients and vitamins into ourselves without having to worry too much about it, and c) because we're a greedy family who like our food.
I do believe that for humans to eat meat is part and parcel of the wider food chain and as far as I can I buy and choose organically and locally reared meat rather than anything intensively reared or processed for both environmental and compassionate reasons.
I have no problem with vegetarianism - I would say that we eat meatless meals maybe three times a week. My nephew who is the same age as my meat-eating ds has been vegetarian from birth and is a bright, strong, healthy boy. However, I would say, Hollya, that I agree with the posters who say that a balanced and varied vegetarian diet takes a mite more planning, and that I think veganism would be way more problematical - to remove all the nutrients provided by dairy products as well.
Good luck, Hollya, I hope you come to an amicable resolution on this one.

WideWebWitch · 23/02/2005 23:13

Good luck hollya! Btw, my children are vegetarian purely because I am convinced of the health benefits: I have no moral problem with eating meat. (I don't want to argue with anyone about this btw, just thought it worth pointing out to hollya's dp that not all veggies are veggie because of animal welfare issues, some are because they believe being veggie can be as healthy as being carnivorous.)

stupidgirl · 23/02/2005 23:17

But Matonic, if Hollya has been a veggie herself, long term, cooking and preparing balanced veggie meals will be second nature, rather than something new which will need lots of thought. It's slightly more taxing when they're tiny but my kids eat the same as me and have for ages.

Hevs · 24/02/2005 09:57

Hollya - I have been vegetarian for 25 years now and am raising my 3 yr old and 9 mth old as veggies, despite having a meat-eating husband. Both are happy, healthy and energetic. With veggie baby food I found that the flavours and textures are so diverse that neither kids were as fussy about food as their meat-eating friends.

I've never really talked to the 3 yr old about meat, and why we don't eat it and, so far, he's never questioned it. If at nursery he's accidently given a meat meal I'm told that he hands it back and says "I don't eat that". Something I've not taught him to do.

Matonic · 24/02/2005 09:57

Stupidgirl, I'm certainly not doubting Hollya's abilities! I started off specifically answering Seashells' question about why meat-eaters eat meat. All I meant about the 'mite more planning' comment is that there is lots more info and advice available on weaning and baby/toddler diets for omnivores than there is for vegetarians - I know that my veggie bro and sil took advice about feeding babies/toddlers a veggie diet to ensure my nephew was getting the right balance of nutrients for his size and stage of development, prob more for reassurance than anything else. And why not?

SeaShells · 24/02/2005 10:03

It is true that living a vegetarian lifestyle in a mainly 'meat eating' society is very difficult, it is getting easier with all the alternative meat products which are becoming more varied and common, but raising children vegetarian does take considerably more planning and thought.

Hevs · 24/02/2005 10:04

Can also strongly recommend the Carol Timperley baby cookbook. Really nice recipes from tomato soup to curry! My kids love the cinammon cous cous with the apricots, raisons and coconut - and so do I!

Twiglett · 24/02/2005 10:08

feel 'smug' about being vegetarian? well PMSL

suzywong · 24/02/2005 10:14

Can I just say that I think Matonic's 10,43 post to be a very thoughful, succinct and balanced policy on meat-eating and I can only wish I'd typed it myself. It certainly is the way I try to feed my family.