A mild one about food providers and vegetarianism in the UK

[HundredAcreOwl]

This is because in the last month there have been three things, nothing major to me. In the past tenish years since I became vegetarian, only a couple of others.

I was in a well-respected French restaurant in Edinburgh with friends who recommended it, the Salade Nicoise with tuna and anchovies was marked as vegetarian. I did ask, but it was apparently vegetarian to them.

A local new Turkish restaurant we visited to support, which clearly labelled every dish as vegetarian or not, served our separately ordered vegetarian and meat starters on the same plate in front of just me.

Husband was at an event meal, the vegetarian option included prawns.

I'm really interested in other experiences/views. I am also well aware that vegetarian food is different in different cultures.

I've been vegetarian nearly 25 years, other than the odd mishap where they bring the wrong version of the dish out I've never experienced anything like what you have!

I did get asked once whether I'd be willing to accept that most dashi stock contains fish sauce when eating in Japan but I gather not everyone is 100% strict so it wasn't a completely bizarre question.

Well I’m not vegetarian myself but, if I were, I would find all of these examples unacceptable and complain loudly!

Not acceptable in the UK to be making such mistakes on menus! What with allergy awareness now the law and what not.
I also remember seeing mussels being marked as vegetarian and the waiting staff calling me a ‘strict vegetarian’ as I didn’t eat fish 🙄

So many places ask about allergies yet seem unable to understand what vegetarian & vegan mean.

I go to two hospitals a couple of times a week, most weeks & just in their cafes, I’ve asked for vegan sandwich/lunch options in one cafe & the answer was “we should be getting some gluten free options on a few weeks”. The other hospital I asked if they have any vegan, savoury lunch options & he offered me an egg sandwich.

I don’t know why people who work with food make out it’s so complicated when it really isn’t.

I get that some cultures don't regard fish and seafood as meat, especially when it comes to religious fasting. But describing a dish of tuna and anchovies as "vegetarian" is a bit ridiculous. To my knowledge, no mainstream form of vegetarianism in the West considers fish/seafood permissible to eat.

For the second example, did you say to the waiter that you were vegetarian? I get that some restaurants might serve starters or mezze dishes for the same table on the same platter, but it does seem a bit risky when it comes to allergies and different dietary preferences.

A vegetarian friend was once recommended 'the duck'. Nothing really surprises me now when it comes to vegetarian food. I don't really know how people with allergies eat out, if people can't work out what is vegetarian, how can they work out what contains allergens?

My pet peeve is when menus indicate which main courses are vegetarian with a little green v or whatever. Then don't bother with the desserts and side dishes!
The fish thing is persistent, I have been offered tuna multiple times as a vegetarian option.
It doesn't help when pescetarians refer to themselves as vegetarian "it's easier" and then eat the fish!

I was surprised at these all happening recently, I'm wondering if it's a trend. I do get your dashi point, I've accepted that Chinese takeaways in the UK will probably contain fish or oyster sauce.

I don't complain easily but might leave a comment on the Edinburgh restaurant, the Turkish restaurant we won't be going back to except possibly for coffee and baklava, my husband did point out I'd have said prawns aren't vegetarian.

That is such a good point about allergies.

I think though that what really got me is that the Edinburgh restaurant saw no problem with describing a fish containing dish as vegetarian. It wasn't a mistake to them.

An added stress for you, I'm so sorry. I hope your parking or public transport is easy.

I guess it's management who aren't thinking, and don't educate, but as you say it's really not complicated.

I'm thinking it might be linked to the Catholic tradition of eating no meat on Fridays but fish was allowed? I went to a non-religious school, only fish on Fridays. I am not religious, I could well be wrong.

I did say I was vegetarian, I often don't unless we're asked for allergies/preferences, but they confused our order, checked who wanted what.

If they'd put the mixed dish in the middle of the table, I'd have realised sooner.

I thought things had improved since I was regularly offered fish as a vegetarian in the 80s and 90s - I haven't had any problems lately, but DD, who is vegan, has had a couple of bad experiences in restaurants this year, with actual meat turning up in vegan dishes she had ordered. She now sticks to purely vegan restaurants as much as possible, but that's not an option in many places, and obviously not when it is event or hospital catering.

I was going to an annual event with my husband, he said I was vegetarian, the new person in charge of food asked if I ate chicken. To be fair, the vegetarian options for the years following that have been excellent.

I have noticed a few restaurants putting a 'vegan/vegetarian option available' symbol next to things like your (fishy) salad nicoise - I wonder if some of the less-trained staff get confused and think the symbol means the original dish is vegetarian?

Also a pet peeve! Another is that vegetarian dishes usually do not feature on the 'specials'.

That is really bad. Does she feel able to complain, do they have any reason/excuse?

Ugh I hate this:

• being told e.g Caesar salad without chicken is vegetarian even though there are anchovies involved
• things with actual stated fish ingredients being labeled V
• parmesan EVERYWHERE with a V even in Michelin starred restaurants (true Parmesan is never vegetarian)
• as above when I query whether certain cheeses are vegetarian people saying “oh are you vegan?”
• the no Vs on desserts and looking at me with two heads when I ask if something is vegetarian then after being asked to ask the chef if it has gelatine they often come back with yes….

if you are a chef you should definitely know these things in general and if you are front of house you should know what’s in the dishes on the menu!

The French one doesn’t surprise me unfortunately - my personal experience of staying in various parts of France throughout my life is that they bloody hate vegetarians and don’t have a clue that ‘just a few lardons’ doesn’t actually make a dish vegetarian! I’m aware that the restaurant you’re talking about is in the UK, but as an example of how uninformed the French seem to be about vegetarianism, my brother lives in France and when he told his son’s nursery that his son was vegetarian, they accused him of child abuse and said there was no way they could support that 🙄

I so get this! And Worcestershire sauce (I use Hendos now!)

I've asked about Parmesan being used before, been told it was Parmesan like. I don't think it's permitted to call something Parmesan when it's not.

Child abuse for beng vegetarian? I really hope they did support your nephew in the end.

Everything @Nopayrise said!

Can the hospitality industry even spell rennet? (I'm an omnivore.)

Yep, for being vegetarian! The only way they would move forwards was insisting that my brother get a letter from a doctor saying that my nephew could not eat meat and that my brother had to send in his own packed lunch and snacks and be completely responsible for his diet - it had to be all or nothing and therefore the nursery won’t even give him eg fruit at snack time unless it’s his own! Madness.

This. Absolute basics at this point for people working in the food industry.

I've looked into this a bit more just now, and apparently under Scottish Law it is illegal to label something as vegetarian if it contains tuna or anchovies.

I think I'll take it a bit further. It is a well-respected restaurant, charges quite a lot, it really shouldn't be doing this.