Weaning vegetarian/vegan style (anti-allergenic): any tips? : )

[MamaTama]

My DS is now 8 1/2 months old & has been tasting food since about 5 months & eating it for real since around 6 months.

I'm a lifelong vegetarian & want to bring him up the same way but am finding the weaning process a bit difficult.

I know quite a lot about adult nutrition & have applied this to my own diet with good results (I am very seldom sick & have no long-term health problems) but as far as feeding an infant is concerned am not very confident that what I prepare for him will meet all his needs (calories, vitamins, minerals & protein).

I was previously asthmatic but got rid of it using a combination of vegan foods & practicing yoga breathing techniques & also had bouts of eczema & psoriasis in my earlier years which have thankfully now disappeared. My father has severe hayfever & my sister & her daughter both have allergies too, added to which there is also a history of allergy in his father's family so with this in mind I have decided to play safe & not introduce any of the main allergy-provoking foods (particularly peanuts & other tree nuts, dairy products, wheat & soya) to my son's diet too soon.

This didn't cause any difficulty during the first stage of weaning as I was giving him mostly fruit & veg purees & brown baby rice porridge, but as the weeks go by I am becoming concerned that he is not getting adequate amounts of the essential dietary elements.

He has been fully BFed since birth & I plan to continue for as long as possible up to about 2 years, but I am aware that as time passes my milk has less & less nutritional value.

I've bought several books about raising vegetarian babies & toddlers but as far as I've been able to gather most advocate introducing milk & other dairy products &/or tofu at this stage to meet growing protein requirements. I have recently read a couple of articles about non-fermented soya products & the oestrogenic content of ordinary soya derived foods which have caused me to be extremely cautious about feeding it to Jahleel, especially at such a young age.

At present I usually give him some sort of porridge type meal for breakfast (rice, quinoa or millet so far) with different fruit purees (& sometimes the cooking water from sweet-tasting veggies I've boiled or steamed for him the day before).

Lunch isn't fully established yet but he snacks on rice cakes & spelt crackers with a piece of fruit to nibble on (he's teething so I think this is as much for the comfort as for the actual eating) around noon/early afternoon depending on what we're up to. I give him similar things during the day but it depends on his mood whether or not he accepts or rejects them!

In the evening he has veg puree (I'm trying to make these rougher mash type texture but sometimes he refuses them unless they're smooth). I'm also finding this hard as he hasn't shown much enthusiasm for more savoury tastes & I'm aware I should now be aiming to guide him towards eating things that I myself would normally eat. I've tried cooking non-wheat pasta for him with a tomato sauce but he hated it, ditto for mashed beans. He has taken a small amount of brown rice grains when I was eating a wholefood sushi ball but literally only 4 or 5 grains at a time & he soon decided he'd had enough.

I know that finger foods are important but he sometimes refuses to try them, instead either throwing or flicking them off his high chair tray before he's even tasted them. I understand that babies like exploring textures etc. with their hands so am not unduly concerned or upset when he squashes things between his fingers etc. but I've watched so much good food go to waste all the while wondering if he's going to end up with some kind of deficiency.

I'm still BFing on demand & the frequency & quantity of milk feeds varies a lot but since he won't often drink much water or weak herbal teas I'm happy to continue with that, especially with the warmer weather as I don't want him to be dehydrated. Think I'm going to start offering him diluted juice with his meals soon though so maybe that'll replace some of the BM he's currently taking.

The Health Visitors at the clinic I go to are very conventional & do not know much at all about veggie/vegan nutrition so I don't expect too much info or support from them.

What I'd really like is to hear from real people who have had & overcome similar issues or who know a bit more about the theory & practicalities of negotiating this important transition who can advise me what to do...

Sorry for the long post but I figured if I was going to ask for help I should give as much background as possible.

Thanks in advance to anyone who replies!

Your milk does not have less nutritional value. Don't panic. This might help.

This gives more information about iron.

In the short term you could try giving him rice cakes with a little marmite (vile, vile stuff), and adding some pureed beans like cannelini or chick peas to his vegetable purees. If you search Baby Led Weaning you'll find a lot of people with dirty floors/full dogs who have been equally worried and received reassurance.

My DD is being brought up vegetarian. Despite being quite clued up about nutrition I had similar reservations to you and bought a couple of books to give me more of an idea and basically just went from there.

First and most importantly, do not give brown rice to a baby, the fibre will remove more nutrients than it gives and is too bulky and will fill up a baby too soon. Basically, keep off the wolemeal pasta and brown rice until he's a bit older, although wholemeal bread is OK in small doses.

The important things to remember are iron, zinc and protein. The sources for babies are the same as those for adults, only you have to try and concentrate more nutrition into tiny portions, IYSWIM, so concentrated sources like wheatgerm and ground nuts and seeds (I gave these from 9mo though) come in very handy.

I used to do 1 vegetable protein meal and one animal protein meal, always with a wide selection of veg and fruit + at least 1 cereal per meal. That worked for me, also because I live in a country where there isn't a lot of "special" vegetarian food available. I never gave fake meat products like quorn or soya mince and I still don't, but then that's because I never prepare meals on a "one lump of protein plus 2 veg" basis. DD never liked mashed beans either but things like hummous or bean speads went down a treat.

Your breastmilk is still Ok as the main source of protein, although this will gradually need to be in some way added to or replaced by other sources. Vitamin C is also very important in order to aid absorption of iron etc., but I'm sure you know that. I used to (and still do) give diluted freshly squeezed juice with one iron rich meal but the rest of the time it's water. I only recently at nearly 3 have added other commercial juices/smoothies as I didn't want my dd to develop too much of a sweet tooth (nor rot her teeth)

I'd say on the whole go with your instinct, but maybe invest in a book or two to give you a base. I found Veggie Food for Kids by Sara Lewis very handy, as was the Rose Elliot Mother and baby one. I got my DD eating "adult" flavours pretty quickly as I wanted her to have a versatile a diet as possible, also baby foods as such don't exist in many parts of the world so I saw no point in doing flavourless slush just because it's the done thing in the Western world.

Sorry if this is a bit disjointed, it's late and my lenses are steamed over. Let me know if you have any more questions

God my brain is addled, I just noticed you don't give nuts. Too much excitement on the telly.

FWIW I also held off milk and eggs until a year old, but I must admit I did give mature cheeses, though not fresh ones. You could use tofu blended with a little oil and other flavours (spring onion/chives/peppers etc) to make creamy spreads, or silken tofu blended with banana for a non dairy dessert.

You will have to think a bit about calorie and fat content if you're not going to be giving dairy or nuts, especially once you start reducing bfeeds. I find adding a teaspoonful of extra virgin olive oil to portions works quite well, or flax oil though my DD doesn't like the taste of this much.

I firstly wanted to echo Brangelina, don't give a lot of brown rice of other high fibre foods to your DS until he's 4 or 5, babies can't cope with a high volume of roughage and also it robs the body of useful nutrients at that age. Stick to white rice and millet and similar.

I wouldn't worry too much if you're BFing on demand, until a year old babies get all theri nutritional requirements from milk, eating is more a learing experience and opportunity to develop a teaste for different foods. I fed my DS on a similarly restricted diet for about his first two years, and I think the hardest part was keeping a lot of variety. Millet went into almost everything he ate (it has a very high protein content) and he also had a lot of dried fruit blended intop things. Dates, which are high in iron, I'd often puree one onto steamed broccoli and millet, making a very nutritious ans also sweet meal.

Although he'll be getting most of his fat from your milk, try icluding some high fat foods into his diet. Avocados spring to mind as the main one. I'd recommend getting some extra virgin rapeseed oil too to add to meals, is is very mild tasting and has roughly ten times as much omega 3 as olive oil, half the saturated fat as olive oil, and a high level of vitamin E.

Forgive me if I'm giving suggestions for things you already do, but do you so any seed sprouting? Because if you blend some just sprouted seeds with water it makes a good and highly nutritious milk substitute. I used to make one with alfalfa sprouts,then blend them up with some water, a banana and some dates for smoothies for DS. I used to do this with surflower seeds too and almonds, but obviously if you want to avoid nuts for a while it may be something to remember for later.

OMDB, that's a really good tip re the sprouts, I'd never have thought of that. I wonder if my DD will try it now thst she's nearly 3 and in the midst of a fussy phase.... Another tip for iron is to use molasses instead of other sweeteners. At times it's more handy than dried fruit, stirs easily into porridge and obviously has less fibre.

I did the nut milks, mainly almond but also cashew, which made a creamy alternative to bechamel for things like mushrooms. Millet was one of our staples too, particularly as for the 1st couple of months of weaning I wanted to stick to gluten free. However, whenever I bought the flakes, they went a bit musty after not very long, even when kept in a jar. Is it just me or is it normal?

Brangelina I use the millet grain, rather than the flakes, and also use it at work so store large amounts of the stuff in the dry-store cupboard for up to six months in an airtight container and it doesn't go musty.

Obviously it takes a lot longer to cook, 20 minutes, but you can cook up a batch to last a couple of days and store it in the fridge. I add it to everything, even now, especially tthings like bolognese and shepherd's pie. It also bulks out the meat (DS isn't vege any more).

Try the sprout thing. Especially in things like smoothies, it's sweet that way so I'm sure your DD will like it!

Am going out to buy some alfafa seeds right now...

I use the grains too now as they do keep. I just used to buy the flakes to make porridge with or mix with oats for breakfast. I will not be buying them any more, this is the 3rd time they've gone musty.

Brangelina some good info here

Thanks so much to all 3 of you for the input & for opening up the discussion.

Some of the advice will be very useful a bit later on but as I said I plan to avoid nuts & seeds of all types as well as soya (milk, tofu), all dairy (animal protein) & wheat (bread, pasta etc.) for quite a while yet.

The rice cakes I buy are made from brown (wholegrain) rice, as is the rice porridge, both of which are specifically made for babies so I'm confused about the fibre issue. I can see that too much roughage could prevent absorbtion of valuable nutrients though, but as I alternate regularly with other non-glutinous grains maybe it's ok. What do you think?

Good idea to mix beans with other veg. Houmous does contain tahini though (sesame paste) so not ready for that yet either, but am now thinking about making my own tailor-made bean spreads to fit in with the restrictions I've chosen to place on DSs diet. Wheatgerm is out too as I'm staying with the gluten-free grains for the moment apart from small amounts of spelt which is much easier to digest than wheat. I also have misgivings about Marmite as it's really (really, really!) salty.

I will definitely be getting some extra virgin rapeseed oil as suggested to add to his meals: the omega 3 & 6 balance is much better in hemp & flaxsed oil but I doubt he'd find these stronger-tasting oils palatable (might just give it a try anyway). I already add avocado to his pureed food every few days but whereas when he was very small he'd take it on its own he now doesn't like it for some unknown reason. Just started using EV olive oil too.

The Vegan Society website (thanks for the link CombustibleLemon!) was reassuring in some aspects but seems to rely primarily on soya derived products, wheatgerm & nuts/seeds for protein. Also terminology used is a bit confusing: they refer to both lentils/beans & rice as cereals (& recommend wholegrain variety)! The info on the Bringing Up Baby page did confirm what I've already read about the BM though, i.e. that nutritional needs are fully met by milk alone until 6 months & not 1 year as OverMyDeadBody states (& baby's built up body stores of iron are virtually used up by that time too).

Don't think I'm going to give him Quorn or vegemince either for a while, would much rather he got used to foods as close to their natural state as possible & then maybe use the former as extras when he's a bit older & (almost inevitably) expresses interest in more processed &/or non-veggie foods.

Any info on suitability of raw hemp protein powder for under 1s?

I used to sprout all sorts of nuts & seeds from scratch for myself pre-baby but now buy them as I'm too tired & absentminded these days to keep on top of the rinsing, draining etc. I read that alfalfa wasn't a good idea when pregnant because it can grow a particular kind of bacteria that is harmful to expectant mothers & their unborn children so cut it out then but am now eating it again myself & am wondering if that also applies to out-of-the-womb babies? OMDB: have you heard anything about that? At what age did you start giving alfalfa based 'milk' to your DS? Definitely like the sound of the date & banana smoothie! I may try some mung bean or other pulse milk in the meantime...

Thanks also for recommendation to check out Baby Led Weaning section (haven't had time yet but will take a look the 1st chance I get!): I think that's the route I want to go despite the HVs & mainstream experts dictating otherwise. If I try to make Jahleel conform to their timescale we'll both end up feeling unhappy & pressurised & I want him to have a happy, healthy attitude to & relationship with food.

I really appreciate the reassurance & encouragement you've offered & welcome any futher info, advice & suggestions you & any other likeminded MNers have.

This site is great!

MamaTama, you can get Natex reduced salt to use instead of Marmite. It's all we use now, the real marmite is languishing in the back of my cupboard. It is a very handy food stuff, especially as you'll have to keep an eye on that B12 when you stop or slow down the bfeeding (as I'm sure you know).

re the bfeeding, OMDB is correct in saying that it is a complete food up to a year. The baby's iron stores start to deplete, but the relatively low amount of iron in bmilk is something like 70% assimilated, unlke other foodstuffs including meat. The solid food that is introduced supplements this iron and is not intended to replace it entirely (despite common HV wisdom). A lot of cultures, including much of Western Europe in prewar times, hold off the introduction of solid foods till well after 6 months with no ill effects.

Regarding soya products and tofu, I believe the risks you cite were from hydrolysed soya proteins and not fermented soya products, as eaten in the Far East for millenia. I certainly don't give my DD any soya mince or reconstituted fake meat, but she does have tofu, tempeh and soy sauce, all of which are fermented via a centuries old tradtional process. She doesn't eat a huge amount of the stuff, I'd say twice a month, and I have only in the last year started to introduce soya milk and even then it is only occasionally. Just a thought if that's the sole reason you're avoiding them.

Thanks Brangelina for the Natex recommendation, I'll see if I can get some & give it a try. What do you use it for apart from spreading? A friend of mine makes a kind of Marmite gravy to go with mashed potatoes & other veg for her DS but apart from that not sure what I'd use it for (not a big Marmite fan as I guess you've gathered but still interested to know).

I'm really confused & slightly worried about the BM thing, mostly everything I've heard & read leads me to believe that my milk on its own is now not enough & Jahleel is so active that I still find myself doubting that that alone would sustain him in good health up to 12 months even with reassurance (x2) from you. Where did you get your info from OMDB & Brangelina? Anyone else got a comment to reinforce their assertion? Hope I don't sound too cynical, would be good to be able to look into it further...

Soya: I was talking about non fermented products such as tofu, soya milk & 'yoghurt'. I know the benefits of eating soya foods of the fermented variety are great, the molecular structure being altered favourably by the process of fermentation.
It's a contentious issue which I think many people are not aware of (& I myself am not sure about whether or not it is all true but am likely to err on the side of caution as far as DS is concerned til I have solid proof to the contrary). Included in the purported potential negative effects of regular soya consumption are: problems related to excess phyto-oestrogen including early menarche in girls & delayed puberty in boys; weakened thyroid function with associated health problems such as obesity, fatigue, depression & heart disease; infertility & controversially increased incidence of childhood leukemia & possibly of cancer in adults too, particularly breast cancer.. Also it is one of the most common allergens with those having peanut allergy particularly at risk.
Brangelina you mention the Far East but Oriental people simply do not eat as much soya as Westerners think.
The average daily consumption in Japan (one of the highest soya-consuming countries in Asia) is at most about 8g of soya protein (whereas we in Europe & the US are being encouraged to eat as much as 25g as part of a healthy adult diet to help lower cholesterol, a claim which is now also being called into question!).
China and other countries eat far less. Soya has never been a leading staple there like rice, fish or pork. Traditionally, soya plants were plowed under in fields as fertilizer. Soya was a poverty food, eaten heavily only by the poor in times of famine. (Grazing animals don't like to eat it, either.) People there have always eaten soya in small portions as a condiment or a supplement with a meal.
*BTW I'm still eating tofu/drinking soya milk & did so during my pregnancy but in much reduced quantities than before I came upon this information.
I may still offer Jahleel small amounts of tofu (which is not actually fermented but just plain soya milk set with a coagulating agent, usually calcium sulphate or magnesium chloride) & soya milk occasionally a bit later on but as I've said prefer to be cautious whilst he's so young.

I've just previewed this post & really hope I don't sound like a neurotic, paranoid, food-fearing person. I love good food & want my DS to love it as much as I do & am totally committed to BFing until he's ready to stop (within reason!). I just want him to be spared any ill-health as a result of feeding choices I may make for him whilst he can't make informed choices for himself, which IMO is a BIG responsibility!

I just spread the Natex, I'm not a fan of gravies and I don't need things to taste "meaty" as I don't see the point, being a vegetarian and all that.

Info on iron in bm here That site explodes a lot of myths about bf and infant nutrition and is quite informative.

You can actually forego protein from an external source in the first year if you are bfing pretty much full time, and some nutritionists advocate avoiding all animal protein until the 3rd year. A friend of mine many years ago had a baby with a rare metabolic condition whereby a lot of foods, in particular those of animal origin, could create problems with toxins in the blood or something similar (it was a looong time ago). She had a lot of issues when weaning and had to get advice from this Canadian doctor who was a specialist in this kind of thing. IIRC her weaning foods were certain cereals, certain veg/fruit, certain oils and certain nuts/seeds. A little tofu was introduced too as it was deemed easy to digest. It took her another 3 years to get him up to a wide enough range of foods to be considered a farily normal diet, although still no animal products. He is (or was the last time I saw them) a healthy strapping boy who plays rugby and appears to have suffered no ill effects from his restricted early diet.

Thanks for the link Brangelina, I've looked at the Kellymom site a couple of times already when exploring other issues to do with BFing but always on a tight timesale so hadn't read any of that yet. Very interesting!

It's wierd (& a bit scary) how info varies so much from source to source isn't it?

Back later, Jahleel is getting into mischief while I type this!