Bread Machine - where am I going wrong?

[Imabitbusyatthemoment]

I bought a bread machine a few months back, just a cheap one from Aldi middle aisle to see whether I’d use it enough to justify the cost of the Panasonic.

First few loaves were brilliant, came out perfectly. Since then whenever I try and bake wholemeal bread it just does not work. It appears to have risen beautifully and then at some point in the baking stage it sinks. It’s still edible and tastes good, but is pretty dense! White bread seems to be ok but I prefer wholemeal as standard.

I’m using the wholemeal setting and have tried variations of this basic recipe, which is on the side of the flour bag & on Doves Farm website, added in the following order.

335ml water
Tsp salt
Tsp sugar
10g butter (or oil equivalent)
500g wholemeal bread flour or malted bread wheat flour, usually Duchy or Waitrose brand
7g (one pkt) Allinsons yeast (tried Dove’s Farm too, also sank)

I’d be very grateful for any thoughts on where I’m going wrong.

Thanks

Make sure the water is hand hot.
The yeast needs to be the fast active one.

Sounds like a lot of yeast. I wonder if it over rose then collapsed ? I would use 1tsp which is about half a packet. Better to use the recipe that came with your bread maker and should have been tested in it.

Wholemeal flour is heavy going, I use 25% strong white to get a reliable result (in my Panasonic sorry).

Ok thanks. I’ve been using warm water but will try hotter. Yeast is fast acting.
There doesn’t seem to be a problem with the rise initially, it just sinks again while baking.

The ingredients in the recipes are slightly different to what is available here as the recipes are German but looking at it now, the yeast to flour ratio is lower so you could be right.
I’ll try mixing the flours too.

Have you checked the expiry date on your yeast?

Mine used to collapse if I added too much yeast.

The yeast is fresh, I have been making a lot of bread - it’s just all a bit sunken!

Sometimes the flour can be wrong due to bad growing conditions, try Canadian bread flour from Waitrose. It's what gave us consistently the best results.

You add the ingredients in the order you wrote them above?

I've had several Panasonic over many years (at least 20) and the yeast is always the first thing you put in. Away from the paddle, though frankly I've never known this to matter. Then the flour, then the salt and sugar, away from each other. Butter/oil next. Water added last and poured in carefully to ensure the flour retains a barrier between water and yeast. I dont know if this matters, but it was what I was taught and I bake a loaf, successfully, pretty much every day.

I had a cheap bread maker from Aldi and it only made dense heavy bread. I didn’t realise a bread maker could make lighter bread till it gave up and we bought a new one.

I agree it could be the mixer. We have a Panasonic and have done a similar recipe to yours and it's been fine. Also used bread mixes which have worked too and make pizza dough.

I wonder if it’s because German bread is generally heavier, e.g, rye bread etc.

Thank you everyone for the suggestions. I’ll work through them all and see if I get a better result.

Yes, as written above. I keep the yeast away from the salt and water using the flour for a barrier but will try reversing the order.

Thanks for the suggestion

Similar happened to me - it turned out to be the yeast quantity - I used 7gr satchets - BUT the recipe was for 2 teaspoons - which with sugar would be 10 gr so I was always thinking I wasn't putting in enough.

I then started pouring the sachet into a teaspoon measure and 7gr is FAR to much so it was over rising each time.

So now it's 2 actual teaspoons and I buy a small tin of yeast rather than the sachets. LOVELY bread now - though this is for white bread - but maybe your situation too

I’d just use 1teaspoon of yeast in that recipe. I put the ingredients in the pan in the order water, oil, salt, flour, sugar, yeast.

Use dried yeast, not a whole sachet, just about 1.5 tsp to 500g flour

Keep the salt and yeast away from each other when you load the machine.

Use cold water - the machine does the warming. You would only use warm when making by hand.

Add a tbsp of milk powder to enrich the flavour.

It could be that the yeast is off, the flour is past its best.

I have a Panasonic- about 15 years old now and tend to only bake from pre-mixed bread mixes now.

Sounds like your Yeast is getting wet before it is hot enough. Yeast will die within a time frame from activation, but even when activated, it will only work in the right conditions. If it gets wet while the bread maker is heating, it will activate, be too cold to work, and die before it gets hot enough to work.

I used to find that the best way was water first, then flour to provide a floating but dry base, then yeast and other ingredients on top. Then there is no way the water can work its way down to the yeast, before temperature is reached.

Make sure you put the ingredients in in the order that your machine specifies. Panasonics are unusual in putting in the yeast then flour with water on top. Panasonics are also worth every penny- I’ve had mine for over 22 years and love it, more than paid for itself!

This is the Panasonic recipe (in this order into pan)
0.75 TSP yeast, use an accurate measure not a cutlery spoon
300g strong wholemeal flour
100g strong white
1 TSp sugar
1 TSp salt
15g butter
280ml water
5hr wholemeal cycle or nearest you have.

There is a 500g version but this is my usual loaf I know by heart.

Sometimes you just get a bad batch of yeast.

Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) helps wholemeal to rise - 1tsp per kilo of flour.

Don't reverse the order you add the ingredients. Every bread machine I've ever had has them added in the order you've written them.

I don't know if you machine does it but the Panasonic machines just sit and do nothing for the first hour of the cycle, giving the flour chance to soak. I get my best loaves if I add the ingredients in the evening nd set the timer for it to finish at breakfast time.

Bad yeast still ruins it, though

I think trying out a cheap one before buying a Panasonic may have been a false economy. We’ve had a Panasonic for 10 years and it still makes decent loaves (even with cold water and old flour).