y'know when you're kneading bread,

[PhDlifeNeedsaNewLife]

I don't get the "silky, stretchy" bit. mine starts ok, then invariably gets sticky. and stickier. the recipe I'm trying atm says don't add any flour at kneading stage and I end up quitting kneading because the whole blob is completely stuck to me or the counter. what am I doing wrong?

and also, why does my bread spread, rather than rise?

you can oil the work surface instead of using flour. and i find if it is quite a loose dough you should use quite a light hand and sort of pull it rather than knead it (think how a dough hook works)

try Dan Lepard's books

Too much water added at the beginning? I never measure for making bread (this is going to sound as poncy as hell), I just chuck in what looks like about the right amount of flour, sachet of yeast, bit of salt and add water until it looks about right to me. I always add a bit less than I think I need because different flour absorb different amounts and the action from the kneading also produces moisture.

huh, I've been meticulously measuring [anal] but it doesn't help this recipe does everything in grams. which is fine for flour and water, but trickier with olive oil and salt. how d'you measure 5g of salt, fgs?

(slight at ranting)

"pull it rather than knead"?

"dough hook"?

[thick]

God, I add flour willy nilly (titter) if it's a bit sticky.

and does it spread sideways because it's not kneaded enough, then?

I am shite at doing as I'm told Phd. I always think I know better, by sheer fluke, though it always works. I do measure for cakes though.

I would ignore the "don't add any flour", and at least put some on the work surface. The stickiness of the dough appears to me to be related to the quality of flour, Dove's farm organic seems to accept more water, or at least not be as sticky as some of the supermarket own brands, i.e. 1lb of flour + 1/2 pint of water is sticky with Tesco's flour, silky with Dove's.

The bread will spread because of too much water/oil, again use the best quality flour.

I have to admit to cheating and doing the kneading in my Kenwood Chef, and prior to that in a food-processor.

lol ranting, you must be my evil twin polar opposite

yep am using tesco flour, molecule, will try expensive stuff next time. (sigh)

I have no probs with tesco flour, if it's really sticky then just scatter some more flour over everything just to dry it out a bit, then continue kneading. I normally start the kneading process while it's still in the bowl (I have a huge bowl) then turn it out when it's past the worst of the stickiness.

Ah Phd, you would be the other half of me that is totally organised and not at all erratic then

that;s the problem FG, mine gets stickier and stickier, it nevr seems to get better.

thought maybe i wasn't kneading right, or long enough, or something like that. was waiting for moondog to tell me I wasn't doing it with enough love

Just chuck more flour at it!

Or start with less water . . .

Andrew Whitley (Bread Matters/Melmerby Village Bakery man) says you just put lots of flour on work surface and your hands and knead in more if it is too sticky to work.

I am not embarrassed about using mechanical aids to kneading since Heston Blumenthal decided that dough done with a mixer was better than hand-kneaded when he was making the perfect pizza.

ha Kathy, it's the Andrew Whitley recipe I'm trying that says "don't add any more flour". I took this to mean the work surface as well - p'raps I was being too literal!

I don't have room in my kitchen for any mechanical aids.

LOL. He does say in the intro that to make good ciabatta you have to have very wet dough. What one are you making?

I was just trying the overnight sponge recipe that was in g2 the other week. It came out very nicely last night, despite everything!

Has it all gone? Did you scoff it straight from the oven?

scoffed a little

but no it's not all gone, I am trying to resist buying any and nothing, it seems, slows down my scoffery like the thought that when it's gone I'll have to make some more!