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Christmas Day Wine

15 replies

willthatbeall · 21/12/2021 20:26

I'm after a really nice white for Christmas lunch - Turkey with all the trimmings
Budget £30-40
Any one knowledgeable on this?

OP posts:
Otherpeoplesteens · 22/12/2021 10:15

At this late stage, I honestly think that if you're determined to spend north of £30 on a bottle of wine then it probably depends on what is on shelves in physical stores near you. I wouldn't order a single bottle for delivery and risk it not arriving. Majestic, for example, are not guaranteeing Christmas deliveries any more.

If you have a decent independent merchant nearby, or a branch of Majestic, then just go in and ask what they recommend.

For me, although I rarely drink white with meat I'd be looking for body and structure, but also a certain amount of acidity to cut through the fat and mix of flavours you get from the food. I'd want to avoid too much oak.

If you want Old World then you should get a decent Burgundy or excellent Rhône at that price, but might find better value for slightly less from Italy, Spain or Portugal. From the New World then any Aussie Chardonnay in this kind of price range is going to be good and food-friendly, and much more like traditional Burgundy than a £5 supermarket special. I've got a soft spot for Penfolds as it's the one big brand that is also consistently a quality leader. French Sauvingnon Blanc rarely stands up to the intensity of a Christmas lunch, but New Zealand SB or Riesling is usually full enough - Cloudy Bay would be an obvious reference and fairly widely available.

However, what I would also say is that a £40 bottle of wine is not four times as good as a £10 one. We have found that we get rather more enjoyment from two £10-15 bottles than a £30 one, especially if we've started the day with buck's fizz and perhaps had a sherry or two before the meal. A number of commentators are recommending Aldi's Winemaster's Lot Vacqueyras Blanc at £9.99 and that's what we'll be serving.

BlingLoving · 22/12/2021 10:36

@Otherpeoplesteens point re price points is what I was coming on here to say. I'd go down to your local wine merchant or even just a good supermarket with a decent selection and spend between £10-£20 and get two bottles than blow it all on one white wine at £30.

Broadly agree with her recommendations too although can't comment on the burgundy / rhone as not well versed. I would say make a choice on Chardonnay vs Sauvignon Blanc based on what you prefer - I like a very high end chardonnay but would always choose the crisp grassiness of a sauvignon blanch while I have a number of friends who wouldn't touch a sauvignon blanc with a barge pole.

I'd also ask a wine merchant about a really good riesling, possibly on the less dry side as at that price point I think you'd get something good and it would go well with the Turkey.

sparklemagicsnow · 22/12/2021 10:41

I agree with a NZ Sauv recommendation for Christmas dinner if you like it.

I don't know of any £30 bottles, you'd be better going to a merchant but I can recommended The Ned NZ Sauv, it's lovely and around £10 a bottle. Also widely available! Also Villa Maria Reserve one (black label, not the standard one) is around £15 and also very nice.

TooWicked · 22/12/2021 10:43

Always a NZ Sauvignon Blanc for me, or if we have red a Barolo or Amarone.

BlingLoving · 22/12/2021 10:44

@sparklemagicsnow

I agree with a NZ Sauv recommendation for Christmas dinner if you like it.

I don't know of any £30 bottles, you'd be better going to a merchant but I can recommended The Ned NZ Sauv, it's lovely and around £10 a bottle. Also widely available! Also Villa Maria Reserve one (black label, not the standard one) is around £15 and also very nice.

I like both of these (although around here the Ned is usually a bit more, but you can sometimes get it reduced to £9) so can I recommend on the cheaper end of the scale for your enjoyment the M&S Villiera sauvignon blanc? It is usually £8, but sometimes reduced on Ocado, and v drinkable. Not as good as the Ned but still v nice and that bit cheaper.
willthatbeall · 22/12/2021 14:28

Thank you. I ruled out NZ sauvs for this lunch. Have some fantastic local independent wine shops and I've bought Pouilly-Fuissé for a nice full-bodied white.

OP posts:
LastExitPoppy88 · 23/12/2021 06:14

Have you tried a Pouilly-Fumé? Very much like a Sauv but a little bit more floral

Otherpeoplesteens · 23/12/2021 09:43

Have you tried a Pouilly-Fumé? Very much like a Sauv but a little bit more floral

This is possibly because it is sauvignon blanc! Lovely wine, but I'd be a bit worried it would be overwhelmed by gravy, cranberry sauce and the like - although it would be interesting to have with just pigs in blankets made with smoked bacon.

The Pouilly-Fuissé should be lovely. Let us know how it goes OP.

sparklemagicsnow · 23/12/2021 09:46

@Otherpeoplesteens

Have you tried a Pouilly-Fumé? Very much like a Sauv but a little bit more floral

This is possibly because it is sauvignon blanc! Lovely wine, but I'd be a bit worried it would be overwhelmed by gravy, cranberry sauce and the like - although it would be interesting to have with just pigs in blankets made with smoked bacon.

The Pouilly-Fuissé should be lovely. Let us know how it goes OP.

It is? I know nothing about wine except that I really like NZ Sauv (sorry for the derail, OP).

What else am I possibly missing out on thinking I don't want to spend X amount on a bottle if I'm not going to like it?

I don't really like Pinot Grigio or most Chardonnays.

Otherpeoplesteens · 23/12/2021 12:03

@sparklemagicsnow

Pouilly-Fumé is indeed 100% sauvignon blanc, as is white Sancerre which comes from the opposite side of the Loire river at its eastern end. They both differ to a certain extent from NZ sauvignon because of climatic and soil differences; they tend to be more herbaceous and grassy with more acidity, whereas NZ wines have noticeable tropical fruit notes and more body. The French ones also have a note of 'gun flint' which is drawn from the minerals in the soil.

France can be terribly confusing for the wine beginner and for anyone who has been brought up on New World wines with the grape variety listed on the label but, in general, the region and the particular appellation are the best clues as to what a particular wine will be made from and therefore taste like. Unfortunately the label will almost never list the grape varieties. You either have to store a lot of knowledge in your head, or ask someone who knows their stuff, or google a lot.

Within France sauvignon blanc is also grown in Bordeaux - where it is often blended with other grapes - and in the Languedoc-Roussillon - where it is almost always labelled as a SB varietal.

On missing out, pinot grigio and chardonnay - it would help if you could explain why you don't like them. A heavily oaked £5 supermarket own brand South East Australia chardonnay tastes nothing like a bottle of the Pouilly-Fuissé the OP is having on Saturday even though that's chardonnay as well.

celiamary · 23/12/2021 12:10

Majestic have White Burgundies, good body a nice drink, some recent Reislings are sweeter and higher alcohol content than the traditional types.
For a red we find some South African ones that are tasty but not heavy.

sparklemagicsnow · 23/12/2021 13:27

@Otherpeoplesteens Ooh thanks for the info.

I do like Sancerre actually but I've only ever had a £60 bottle so can only judge on that (though it was in a 2 Michelin starred place so it likely was expensive for us to buy there but nowhere near as expensive as that for them them to buy, if that makes sense!).

Pinot Grigio and Chardonnays I've had (only your bog standard supermarket ones and no more than probably £8 a bottle, tops) always taste bitter to me and leave a horrible taste in my mouth. I actually bought The Ned Pinot by accident instead of the Sauv a while back and I didn't really enjoy that either.

Not a fan of rose, it always tastes really sweet to me. Don't mind a Prosecco or champagne, don't like cava. I don't enjoy red either although I have only tried a few. They seem really thick and syrupy?! I did have a Pinot noir at a wedding once that was ok.

Maybe DH can get me a wine tasting/learning course for Christmas!

Otherpeoplesteens · 23/12/2021 17:28

@sparklemagicsnow

I'm struggling to see any obvious pattern in your likes/dislikes bar one: the things you say you don't like are widely available in cheap/crap form, whereas the things you say are OK are generally not available at the bargain end.

A £60 bottle of Sancerre in a Michelin-starred restaurant will cost about £15 from a retailer. By happy coincidence, Aldi have one in their 'Winemaster's Lot' Christmas range for £12.99 which should be something of a bargain. While you're there check out the Pouilly-Fumé from the same range (£14.99, although they've dropped the prices by a quid or so on quite a few of them in the last week or two).

Pinot Grigio is a strange one. In Italy it tends to be quite neutral but in France (Alsace only, called Pinot Gris there) it can be steely and spicy. New World producers tend to produce something more like the Alsatian version. But bulk Pinot Grigio - often house wines in pubs where they are bottled as 'exclusive' brands that therefore cannot be benchmarked for price elsewhere - can be quite chemical and just not very good because they are virtually industrial wines. The actual wine content of a bottle of one of these can cost as little as 15p from the producer and would be used in Italy to cook with. Aldi again (sorry - I really don't work for them!) has an Alsace Pinot Gris in its Specially Selected range for £7.99 which will taste nothing like "pinot grigio" by the glass in the pub.

Chardonnay - again there's a lot of cheap nasty stuff floating around. It grows almost anywhere without too much care so volume producers care little about grape selection or quality, they throw in a load of oak chips to disguise it, and you end up with something like a vanilla fruit bomb masquerading as wine.

There are dry rosés around - mostly from Provence and elsewhere in southern France, and therefore expensive - but I agree a lot of the supermarket ones can taste like the pic'n'mix counter got loose in your mouth. Lidl have one at the moment from Portugal called Cabriz, from the Dão region, which is just off-dry but a serious food wine.

Cava is for my money much more like champagne than Prosecco is, which is why I'm struggling to see obvious patterns in your likes/dislikes. Are you definitely comparing like with like? Most champagne and cava is Brut (dry) - tart and biscuity - whereas even 'Extra Dry' Prosecco can be fruitier and sweeter.

Red is a whole other ballgame, but the syrupy, cloying stuff with names like 19 Crimes or Jammy Red Roo (there was a whole other thread about this) is not representative at all. Interesting that you found pinot noir OK - it is one of the most difficult grapes to grow and you never see a cheap one anywhere, unlike say shiraz or cabernet sauvignon. Try a red from the Douro in Portugal (available in both Lidl - Azinhaga de Ouro - and Aldi - Mimo Moutinho - for £5-6): they have concentrated fruit without the syrupy sweetness you get from some contemporary mass market New World stuff, have plenty of structure to give complexity only really found in Bordeaux at double the price, and soft tannins so as not to frighten the horses.

Rather than going on a course, you might be better off buying a book or two and then just experimenting yourself.

willthatbeall · 23/12/2021 19:34

I twitched and from
My other local wine merchant I've also bought a Meerlust Rubicon (SA red) for Boxing Day and .... very excited to try this .... a Puligny-Montrachet for Xmas lunch instead.. So o we budget BUT the rationale is we haven't eaten out in ages and in a restaurant we would spend 40+ on wine without blinking and be paying massively over the odds.

I often buy Puilly fumé as I love French sauvignons esp Sancerre. And less 'fancy' Muscadet sevre et Maine sur lie

OP posts:
sparklemagicsnow · 23/12/2021 20:10

@Otherpeoplesteens Thank you do much! I've saved your post so I can refer back to it.

Seems that I don't like cheaper wine - that's actually ok because I don't drink much. But when I do I like to have something I really enjoy so I don't mind spending a bit on a bottle.

I shop a lot at Aldi so will check some of those suggestions out Grin

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