veggie dilemma

[ionesmum]

I've been veggie since I was 18. Dh only eats chicken and fish but doesn't like most veggie things. Dd is having veggie and fish. Life would be so much easier for me when dd is a bit bigger if I ate fish too, then I could cook just one meal in the evening instead of two or even three. I do like and miss fish but I also have moral principles about eating anything that has been alive. Has anyone else gone back on being veggie? Or do other veggies think this is a terrible thing to do?

Interesting question Rhubarb. I have to say that although I know there are parents who are vegan and want to bring up their children that way (and that IS their choice) I wouldn't do it. If ds didn't eat dairy products and eggs I would worry about him nutritionally. Please anyone, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!

I agree, it must be annoying if veggies say you are not giving your child a choice by giving them meat but I would never say that to anyone: it is each parent's choice.

It sort of works both ways I suppose - yes, we do all 'force' our children into following what we believe, to a certain extent, while they are too young to make these decisions for themselves. That is as true of religion as is it of food choices (and almost every other choice we make on our child's behalf). I have to say, as an agnostic, I argued strongly with ex DH's family that I didn't want my son to go to temple when he was younger as I thought it would be indoctrination. Now I think I should have allowed it, as without seeing their belief and my disbelief, how can he possibly make an informed choice for himself when he gets older? He has been allowed to go with them for some time and knows that I don't believe and that some other people also don't. It probably isn't a coincidence that I was brought up by agnostic parents. It is especially important for him though since you can be born a hindu but you cannot convert, therefore he does need his options open (sorry to sound flippant about a serious subject!)

Somehow I don't feel the same about meat since the reasons for my ds being veggie are slightly different. His father is hindu and he and his family don't eat meat for religious reasons (some hindus do eat meat but they don't). When I was pregnant we talked about it and DH felt uncomfortable about his son eating meat for this reason. I don't have any religious grounds and I DO eat meat but I did my research, BSE had just happened and I agreed that he would be veggie to start with unless he changed his mind when he was older. i.e. my research established, for me, that there is no good health reason to eat meat (with all the usual provisos about a balanced diet, B vitamins etc). So far (he's 5 next week) he hasn't, although dp and I eat meat and fish, although not loads. Despite this, ds is appalled by it, knows that it used to be alive and seems to find the whole idea of eating a dead animal disgusting. If he asked to try it maybe I'd let him but so far he shows no sign of it.

I do wonder if most small children are quite squeamish about the idea of meat when it's first explained to them? The idea that this is a nice sheep/pig/cow but on our plate we call it lamb/pork/beef etc maybe to disassociate ourselves from the animal it once was? I don't have any tub to thump though, as I said, I eat meat and fish but I do find the whole subject interesting.

I have also been amazed at how people (including health visitors) have been shocked or ignorant on the subject. If I hadn't checked my facts and felt sure of knowing my stuff healthwise as a new mum I probably would have given up and given him fish at some point. Now I'm glad I didn't since he is healthy, happy and shows no signs of wanting meat etc. If he did, I'd discuss it with ex DH and we'd probably let him.

Another aside: I'm constantly amazed at how many products aren't veggie when you'd think they would be. Prawn cocktail crisps are fine (never been near a prawn) but Doritos and Haribo (Gelatin) are not. I'm therefore an avid label reader too!

Sorry to go on so long but all this and people's reactions to it really interest me.

All very interesting.
I'm a meat eater who has something of a fascination with vegetarianism, possibly because many of my friends are vegetarian, and I just find it interesting that some people choose to exclude a large chunk of nature's bounty from their lives.
I just can't engage my brain with the moral arguments against meat. I think there are very strong parallels with religious belief. (which I DO have) If you have a faith,it's an extremely difficult thing to try to communicate to an agnostic who just doesn't "get " it!
I am a bit like that about vegetarianism, I sort of just don't "get" it. (but would never make fun of those who do, just like my vegetarian agnostic pals don't make fun of my beliefs)
Most of my vegetarian pals sort of get the creeps about the idea of eating something that was once alive and that has contibuted a large part to their decision to exclude meat from their diet. I have absolutely no problem with the connection between the cow in the field and the steak on my plate

Have to agree with you Rhubarb, I think it's horrid when a kid is excluded from treats being given to all the other kids in a group for their parents' dietary beliefs whatever they might be.

And, WWW, chicken flavour pot noodles contain no chicken! At least they never used to.

When I was small I never worried about eating animals. Once, we were in a resturant and I said to my mum, 'Just think, we'll be eating cows and pigs in a minute!' She told me to be quiet in case I upset the other diners who might find that off-putting. It wasn't until I was 18 that I felt eating meat was ethically unacceptable to me. It's very much a part of my religious belief not to eat meat, because I believe that we are given stewardship over animals, whereas factory farming exploits them. Since then the movement in organic and free-range meat has grown, which I applaud - most people will continue to eat meat and therefore it is important that farmers are providing meat produced in high welfare conditions.

I expect that my dd will be denied all sorts of 'treats' - our playgroup hands out biscuits and squash - but not because of my vegetarianism. I don't want her eating trans fats, hydrogenated vegetable oil, aspartamene and all the lovely E-numbers such things are made of. She can have real juice and home-made biscuits though!

Jasper, I think it's good that you have no problem with the connection between cows and steak! I like watching Hugh Fearnley Whittingshall - I much prefer his philosophy to that of people who buy their cheap factory farmed meat in plastic boxes from supermarkets and who won't face the reality of what they are eating.

Jasper - I dont have a problem with the connection either. Do you live in the country? Could that be it? We will take delivery of 1/4 of a cow in 4 weeks time when Hamish, who lives in the field next door, is going to be slaughtered. I know he has had a nice life, roaming the heather covered hills and munching grass, but he is being reared for meat and the time has come!
It is organic meat and there is no comparison with what you buy in the supermarket or even from a good butcher. It is GORGEOUS!

Yes Susanmt I do, although I was brought up in the town.
Your post made me feel a little queasy - I have a young nephew called Hamish

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I think my son has no scruples whatsoever! When he was about 5 we passed a field lambs gambolling around. "Look at those, mummy" he said "Lots of lovely lamb chippy chops - can we have some for dinner tonight???"

Now, he cheerfully eats all meats in front of his vegetarian wife. No chance of conversion, methinks. He must inherit it from DH as personally I'd be happy to be veggie.

Well thanks for your replies, I'm pleasantly surprised that you all seem very fair and reasonable about the subject. I do understand the parellels with religion and I have the greatest respect for those atheists and agnostics who let their children take part in religious activities so that they are better equipped to make their minds up when they are older. It's a very mature attitude to take.

The same about vegetaranism I think. I wonder how many vegetarians would tolerate their 9/10 year old saying to them that they wanted to eat meat from now on? My dh and I have discussed this as there are a lot of vegetarians in his family, and we decided that if dd wanted to become a veggie, we would not stand in her way. We are also very open and honest about where meat comes from, but spending half her life at his parent's farm, she probably knows everything there is to know anyway!

And can anyone tell me - if you have been brought up solely on vegetables as a child, how easy is it to eat meat as an adult? I have heard from long-standing veggies that when they tried to eat meat again, they had terrible digestive problems.

Rhubarb, if dd wanted to eat meat I wouldn't stop her but equally I wouldn't cook it for her. She could have it when out or if she were old enough to cook herself. I knew some friends at school who had started to eat meat despite having veggie parents and they were fine. It works both ways - if you have been used to eating meat then you have to cut down gradually so that your stomach gets used to more plant material. So either way our beliefs and lifestyle could have a negative effect on any choices our children might make later.

Robin, I am against gmos that are simply produced for (alleged) profit and disease restistence. However, I'm all for gm foods that are produced to tackle specific health issues, so long as the crops are then produced in conditions where they cannot escape into the wild.

I probably should have explained further in my previous message. I am english and my husband is asian. Our kids are being brought up as veggies because of cultural issues (though we have both agreed to add fish). I am not that strict in cutting out eggs (re:chickens) etc. I have equipped myself with the appropriate knowledge for discussions sake and also so that I too feel that I am not depriving my children. I too do not want my shildren too feel that they are not getting the same foods at nursery. Another reason behind me not being too strict re: animal fats etc in treats etc. I do not want them to feel left out etc. Fortunately there are quite a few children at their nursery who too only eat vegetables and fish (some who are vegans and veggies too). The nursery cooks home foods which I have been really impressed with - the children do not seem to be upset by getting different foods sometimes.
As they get older it will be their choice as to what they introduce in to their diet and I will cook meat for them if that is what they want. Luckily dh is flexible too re:culture and their own choices.

Rhubarb, as someone who was bought up as a vegetarian - for me, the question of eating meat at a later stage never arose as I have never wanted to even try it. I have verey little self discipline and find it hard to give up things that I like but as I've never tried any meat or fish (at least not knowingly tried it!) it is the easiest thing to stay veggie.

In reply to Ionesmum, I've never heard of a new veggie having to cut down meat gradually, all the ones I know simply gave it up. Though they probably didn't eat that much anyway. I'm impressed Floops that you would cook meat for your children if they decided they wanted to eat it. As a meat-eater I would have no qualms in cooking veggie meals for my dd if she went that way, but as 'all' of my veggie friends would not cook meat under any circumstances, it is highly unlikely they would consider cooking it for their children.

Dh and I once went veggie for Lent, a total of 40 days and 40 nights. I cooked meat for dd during that time as I felt it was unfair to include her in our decision. It was a real struggle and I can honestly say that I would not do it again lightly. I had a terrible time wondering what to cook each evening as I'm not a huge fan of beans or mushrooms, and each veggie recipe seemed to require huge amounts of each! So I take my hat off to those who manage to do it quite happily!

Rhubarb, I went veggie from eating meat every day. At first I did it all in one go and felt terrible. I then went back to eating meat, and cut out red meat for a month, then poultry, and then a fortnight after that I cut out fish. I felt fine doing it that way.

Dear Rhubarb - I don't see it as a amjor big deal cooking meat for them. I wnet veggie because we decided they would start off as veggies. If they decided to eat meat later then I may too join them I do not know at the moment. The meals we cook make it really flexible to add meat or leave it out anyway and I marinade alot of fish in spices which could quite easily be fish for us and meat for them. Don't quite know if the in laws would approve but I'd go to the lengths of the earth to support my children's choices so I'll face that one when we come to it.

Good on you Floops!