at the end of my tether - ds will not eat anything I want him to!!!

[meemee]

After yet another tension fuelled tea time I am totally at the end of my tether. DS (3) has always been very picky with food and I've never really managed a day when I feel that he's eaten a healthy and balanced diet. All that he really wants are biscuits and cereals but he has phases when I feel that he eats okay. Fruit and veg have always been thrown back at me although he will drink apple and mango juice happily so I'm not too bothered there.
Recently he has started playschool and he's upped the stakes and food is now a major battle.
Literally all that he will eat: biscuits, cereals, apple and mango juice, chips, sausages from those horrid bob the builder pasta tins (but not the pasta), wholemeal bread (hurrah!), hot cross buns, ice cream and he begs for chocolate and sweets (which he does not get!!!).
He is now rejecting all the things I used to be able to get him to eat like sausages, chicken nuggets, fromage frais, raisins.
If I dare to offer anything remotely healthy like grilled chicken and pasta it will literally get thrown on the floor.
We've tried eating at the table as a family, carpet picnics, all going shopping together, him helping to cook but to no avail.
He is pale, grumpy, waking at 5am starving hungry and I generally think it's a pure battle of wills.
A friend suggested only giving him food that I want him to eat but he really just will not eat it and then is awake hungry all night.
What can I do?????!!!! I am desperate to encourage him to eat. Any suggestions/ similar experiences with extremely tenacious kids?

Try only offering him what you want him to eat (things that you know he likes) but not making a fuss when he doesn't. Just take it away and tell him that that is all there is. He might be hungry for a few days but I think you're right - it is a battle of wills. He's worked out that if he refuses to eat, you'll give him what he wants to eat.

It sounds like you've tried all the positive persuasion tactics already.

"He's worked out that if he refuses to eat, you'll give him what he wants to eat" Within reason - you're not offering him chocolate but you will let him have the limited things he deigns to eat.

Maybe let him have what he wants at one meal and what you want him to have at another, where you just take it away if he doesn't eat it.

My dd is a very picky eater too!
I went through a phase of just offering her what we were having and then letting her have a peice of bread and butter so she wasn't starving when she inevitably refused
She is 3.6 now and she still gets basically what we're having but i try and make sure that there's something she'll eat on the plate. I just stopped asking and persuading!! Recently she's tried carrots and sprouts and cabbage wothour being asked
(She didn't like them but got lots of praise for trying!). I know it's hard when they won't eat nice stuff! Maybe he'll have a go soon?? Fingers crossed for you!+

I'm in total agreement with Soupdragon (as usual). You may have a couple of restless nights, but I'm sure that once he realises that you're not going to give in he'll start eating better.

Yousay he wakes up starving hungry. What will he eat first thing in the morning? If he really is starving that might be a good time to offer him yoguts, healthy cereals and fruit.

hi meemee, I, like a lot of people here, can really sympathise with you on this issue. I dont know how to do a link but if you have a look at a message under Food called 'meal times are just no fun anymore' you will find soem great tips that fellow mumsnetters gave me when I was at the end of my tether.
I found the best thing, although also the hardest, was to pretend that I really didn't care two hoots whether he ate the healthy food that I gave him or not. That was all that was on offer and that was that. Also, I was really cool and calm all the way through meal times (also very hard and involved leaving the room a few times) but that also seemed to help.

I wish you the best of luck.

Second mckenzie there.

My friend's DS was/is like that. Since he was 12 months old he decided exactly what he ate. Starving him didn't do anything - his willpower is awe inspiring! He is now nearly five and has finally started to eat more things. This involved his Mum being totally cool and calm at meal times, where she fed him what she knew he would eat - plus frequently something for him to try. Didn't have to eat it but had to take one bite. And lots of praise when he did try/eat.

Hasn't been easy for her and she tried many things (incl. child psychologist who told her she had very strong willed child!). Patience and perseverance seems to have done it though! Good luck.

With you meemee - my ds 3.5 is a nightmare too. Exactly like yours. For ages and ages I've just given him what I know he'll eat because I want him to eat something. I'm now just getting sick of it and like others have suggested, I give him what I want him to eat and if he eats it, great, but if he doesn't I just take it away.

On sunday lunches the only thing he touches is carrots and maybe a piece or two of chicken if we are lucky.

I'm just going to carry on putting it in front of him - I think on that Little Angels programme they said you might need to present a new food to a child up to 19 or 20 times for them to start to accept it . It's painful throwing it away each time but I'm sick of cooking sausages and smiles so I'm getting tougher.

That said, my ds doesn't wake up hungry in the night so I sympathise with you there and not sure how to get round it, except as others have said - just do it and hopefully after a few days he'll get the message.

Hope you sort it out soon. And me!!

One of my friends with a picky DD gets her to descibe what the food she has just put in her mouth is like. Like has been said, as long as she takes one bite the n lots of praise.
My DS (2yrs) is a really picky eater so I hope it gets better as he gets older but I won't hold my breath.

you have 2 choices as I see it

you give him what you want him to eat and he only gets the rubbishy stuff when he's finished (or had at least 3 spoons of each food on his plate) and you do it consistently

or

you let him eat whatever he wants to

I don't think there's an in-between or a negotiation area, you are the parent and you have to stay firm on this IMHO

We are having trouble at the moment getting ds (3y 3m) to feed himself. He will eat a fairly healthy diet if I feed him, but he refuses to feed himself. Actually, I lie, he will eat yoghurts by himself, and sandwiches etc, so I know that he can wield a spoon or fork. He is just being a complete little monkey about the whole process, and I am doing it all wrong, by getting cross.

It is really frustrating, and he is going to bed hungry a lot at the moment, which makes me feel like a crap mother.

My 2 are like that, Chinchilla. I finally put my foot down with DS when he was 4+, refused to "feed" him any more. What worked was then I promised him pudding if (only if) he ate all his veg each night at tea. Miracle, I now have a 4yo child who eats almost any veg & scrapes the plate clean.

But, DD, still wants to be fed... I hate it, she's not motivated by the promise of pudding. BUT, I have a baby who will start solids in a few months, I'll be spoon-feeding the baby (probably) and I don't want jealousy from DD, so easier just to feed her if she wants to be babied... It's extremely important to me that she eats veg, so if I feed her, that's all I feed her (the veg), and the fact she's getting her veg is some consolation.

Friend still spoon-feeds her 5yo sometimes...He's the fussiest eater we know.

Chinchilla - my picky 3.5yr old ds does that (wants feeding). I wonder whether it's because I still help ds2, almost 2 yrs, with his?? I find I'm juggling the two of them...with a screaming 5 week old after his milk at the same time. NIGHTMARE!!

meemee
my dd was terrile, still is, but my theory is dont bother giving her the food until she is really hungry or asks for it,(tis came after a long battle and me inevitably crying because she wouldnt eat anything).

what if you dont give him any breakfast or lunch and see how he is by 4pm and offer him dinner ?does he ask for his brekkie? if not ignore it and keep him occupied (easy said than done i know) but withmy dd, she takes a small breakfast 1/4 slice toast, sometimes lunch and always dinner and huge bowl and recently cereal, she was 2 on monday.

excuse my typing she was at me for a cracker!

Hermykne, DS does demand dry cheerios the second he wakes in the morning and if I try offering him a healthy alternative or withholding any food at that time he will throw a huge tantrum. Thanks to everyone for all their comments, it is good to know that I'm not alone but, for a usually quite strong person I'm just spineless on this one and find it very hard not to give in and give DS those dry cheerios first thing in the morning.
I think I'm going to have to choose one route and stick to it rigidly because at the moment I'm wavering between the strong approach of "you will eat what I give you and nothing else" and "I must get some calories into you before your ribs start sticking out (even more)". This is obviously giving mixed messages but ultimately DS knows that this issue really pushes my buttons (I feel like I need anger management sessions or anti depressants some days because this food issue makes me so mad and makes me feel like such a failing mother). Actually this is probably all down to karma because I suffered from eating disorders as a teenager so now I know how my poor mum felt!!
Has anyone had any useful advice from psychologists/ dieticians etc?

I think the advice froms psychologists is that you shouldn't make a big deal about mealtimes because then eating becomes a Big Thing and about control, potentially leading to eating disorders. Diet wise, I've heard that a small child is very efficient at stripping nutrients from whatever little they eat. Whether this is true or not, I've held onto this belief in the face of reluctant eaters.

Ive tried not to get angry at meal times for well over 2 years, we always eat as a family. We eat fresh cooked proper food, my ds comes shopping with me, we do everything "they" say you should do, but nothing has worked. You could stick Macdonalds in front of him and he would only have a few bites so its nothing to do with healthy and non healthy food its just him. Tonight I did the one pot chicken dish from Annabel Karmels booked and before he even sat down he said it was disgusting (prompting my 2 year old to do the same). Its sole destroying. Healthy family food is a priority in my life and every night ....for the past 2 years I feel I have had a kick in the teeth. Its easy to say dont get angry, but honestly you need the patience of a saint not too. Im sure in time (please) the hard work will pay off.

I echo SD. All the books etc that I have ever come across recommend simply removing the food from the child, and not making a fuss over it. We remind ds that there is no more food until the next meal, and he says 'OK, no more food until dinner/lunch/breakfast'. He has an iron will (...no idea where he gets it from ). Yesterday, I lost it completely and made a really loud sound half way between a grunt and an 'ARRRRRGH'. Ds sat in his chair with his hands over his ears To top it off, I had dh calling downstairs from his office, 'You're doing it all wrong'.

Mental note to self - get dh a job that involves leaving the house every day

Definitely nothing to do with food type. My friends cannot believe that even when offered biscuits, even choc ones, my ds will say 'no thanks' .

Clearly doesn't take after his mummy !

You aren't a failing mother, just stick at it. I know how you feel - I've tried to think back 'what did I do?', trying to fathom out where I went wrong but I pureed all my own cooked veg, fruit etc for weaning - he ate shepherds pie, lasagne etc as a baby - a really good variety of veg, but from about 18 months probaby he's been a stubborn little so and so.

I have to confess I lose it sometimes but for the most part I just take it away and give nothing else. The thing that's so annoying is he doesn't even care. He just says 'OK' and trots back off to his trainset while I scrape another plate of dinner into the bin .

Sounds like my dd2. She's now 7 and eats a fairly balanced diet, but would still not eat rather than eat something she didn't like. I never used to let her fill up with choc & biscuits (which she would eat), but was flexible if she wanted bread & butter (brown) as a snack. Realised that she really didn't like any food mixed together, so if we have pasta she will get pasta, with a little bowl of ham and bowl of cheese & she adds it herself. Also, if we put a big plate of food in front of her, her appetite dies, so small portions of everything, with seconds if needed (and she does eat them now). She's still so skinny that when she breathes in her tummy button touches her backbone, but she's healthy. PS she's also VERY strong willed.

OK, am I being thick, but what's wrong with Cheerios? Compared to a lot of breakfast cereals they're pretty nutritious and low in sugar.

Kateandthegirls, I wasn't knocking cheerios per se - actually they are one of the more healthy things that DS will eat - it is more the fact that he demands a bowl of dry cheerios (i.e. not eaten with milk, sitting at the table) and the resultant trails of little O's trodden into the carpet all over the house!!!!! The tantrums and food throwing come when I try to get him to sit at the table!

Ahhh, I see.

meemee I know how you feel, my ds (2.5) was a terible eater, but is slowly getting better. We had MAJOR battles at meal times, and just the sight of the table being set would have ds running away screaming 'no dinner mummy, not for me' It is so hard to get get wound up/annoyed/upset but it really is the best thing to do.

What works for us is similar to what hermykne has sugessted, we always gave him weetabix for breakfast as he was always hungry at breakfast and would eat this no problem, lunch was just fruit then I'd serve his dinner at 5.30pm/6.00pm seems late I know but by this time he really was hungry and slowly but surely stared eating bigger portions of what I was serving him. He still only eats about 1/3 of what other kids at each meal time but this is major progress for us. Yesterday he even ate pasta bolognaise, I swear I had to stop myself from cartwheeling round the kitchen!

Sorry - so hard NOT to get wound up.