I want to eat ethically produced meat

[itsasecret1]

So I tried being vegetarian and I found it incredibly hard, mainly because DH is a rampant meat eater and I do all the cooking, making two separate meals was too much work and too expensive. We've come to a compromise (of sorts) to eat less meat and when we do have it - it needs to be ethically produced.

From what I've seen most supermarket meat is rubbish. The only one I'm considering using for meat now is Ocado / Waitrose. Does anyone shop there, can you vouch for their organic meat products?

We meal plan and stick to a budget of £240 a month for food, so this is going to be tough but what I'm considering doing is spending £60 at the start of the month on meat, stocking up the freezer and then using the remaining £47 a week to shop in aldi for all the other bits we need.

I just wondered if anyone did anything similar, had any tips or ideas?

Another thing with medium eggs is that producers find them hard to sell as everyone wants large. Although if you buy them from a small scale keeper you won't get them graded at all. Equally I know someone that has a small commercial flock that supply Happy Eggs and their setup is much nicer than a lot of backyard enterprises. They also do beef for McDonald's which I was surprised about as these are also in tiptop conditions and condition.

Remember as well that organic isn't the be all and end all as lots of smaller producers simply can't justify the costs to register and be inspected. It's also really hard to get certified organic stock (and feed, for some species) so the smaller guys will often follow organic principals like no meds unless absolutely necessary, space requirements, etc, without the actual sticker. That's why it's really good to go and meet people and see their stock if you possibly can.

However I agree from a supermarket point of view the 'safest' welfare choice is organic BUT equally lamb for example I'm not sure it's worth it as 'commercial' methods are almost identical simply due to that being the easiest way of doing things, coincidentally this is also best for the sheep (out on plenty of grass, minimal handling/inputs except when needed for welfare reasons).

There are a lot of online butchers and farmers producing grassfed or organic meat if you have a google. You definitely aren't limited to the big suppliers like Riverfood or Field and Flower.

There are lots of more ethical choices such as old cows that have been slaughtered after a longer life milking, or male goat meat which is normally wasted as male goats are usually killed young as not needed for the goat milk industry. Or picking a farm near you for less food miles - whatever you decide is the most important thing to you.

As above, smaller producers may not have organic stickers but have v high welfare standards and be selling direct to the consumer.

I buy all my meat this way as boxes of half a lamb/pig etc as I have a chest freezer. We eat less meat over all but what we have is lovely quality and none is wasted.

I don't know how anyone can believe in this internet age that there's such a thing as ethically produced meat

Plenty of people don’t have an issue with the animal being killed to be eaten, but do have an issue with poor conditions whilst alive, poor conditions on transportation and killing.

Agree with pp all meat is the same none of it is ethical, that is a lot to spend per month! I'm vegetarian but my dc and dh eat meat which I buy and cook for them which I have no problem with but I wouldn't say buying expensive meat from the butchers would be more ethical

This is interesting:

www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/consumer/worried-about-the-environment-here-are-the-best-and-worst-supermarkets-to-shop-at/amp/

The closest we have come to ethical meat is to hunt our own. We hunt Duck, Deer and Turkey.

You should be able to source meat direct from a farm or reputable company anywhere in the UK - look up the Well Hung Meat Company or Eversfield Organic as an example as well as others mentioned in the thread.
The advantage of finding someone local is that you could ask to go and visit the farm to find out how they rear their animals and if you are happy with their standards.
I'm a meat eater, I have ethical concerns about the sustainability of the livestock industry on an industrial scale so choose to support local more sustainable farming businesses. I don't have an issue per se with animals being killed for me to eat.

@Veterinari I'm not interested in looking like I lack empathy. If you're bothered about animals, you shouldn't eat them in my opinion. Their welfare isn't of any interest to me and the people who say that they only eat 'ethical meat' are hypocrites

Fair enough. I prefer not to be an arsehole to other sentient beings, and not to judge other people for trying to promote good animal welfare practices. You clearly prefer judging people and promoting cruelty. Your choice.

@Veterinari I judge people for being hypocrites. You're happy for the animal to be slaughtered but try and justify it by saying it was allowed to roam a field during its time alive? It's ridiculous

'Good life ' for the animal or not that animal does not want to die. It has feelings and emotions .

You can not justify killing a sentient being by saying it had a good life.

You can not ethically slit a cows throat or stun a pig in the head.

@Veterinari I judge people for being hypocrites. You're happy for the animal to be slaughtered but try and justify it by saying it was allowed to roam a field during its time alive? It's ridiculous

Please point out where I’ve said that a good life ‘justifies’ Slaughter? Oh that’s right. I didn’t.

However if production and death is going to happen then those experiences should provide as many positive welfare experiences and minimise any negative welfare experiences for the animal. I.e. good life experience., appropriate transport standards, effective pre-slaughter stunning.

Suffering is not justifiable simply because an animal will eventually die at the hands of humans. Many pet animals will die at the hands of veterinary professionals through euthanasia - by your ‘logic’ that means we shouldn’t try and provide them with a good life.

Death is a certainty for all of us - why does that inevitability justify a life of suffering? I’m reasonably confident you wouldn’t accept it for yourself, or for others that you cared about. So you might want to review your own hypocrisy around why you think the inevitability of death makes suffering acceptable for some animals but not for others.

Providing good welfare during animal production is challenging, but we have an ethical duty to do so. If you think that viewpoint is hypocritical you should probably buy a dictionary.

@Veterinari please do not insult my intelligence by telling me to go and buy a dictionary. Say whatever makes you feel better, but if you were that concerned about the animals, you wouldn't be eating them at all.

@Pinkyyy I couldn't agree more.

I am vegan but completely agree with Veterinari- if you choose to eat meat it's much more ethical to try to ensure they have good living conditions and as painless a death as possible. Of course as a vegan I believe not eating meat (or any animal product for that matter) is best but it's not black and white, there are shades of grey. I absolutely applaud anyone who cares about animals and is therefore actively trying to reduce the harm they do to them.

None of us know how we're going to die. If it turns out I'm going to be murdered does that mean it doesn't matter whether or not my whole life is shit leading up to it? Of course not!!!

@Veterinari please do not insult my intelligence by telling me to go and buy a dictionary. Say whatever makes you feel better, but if you were that concerned about the animals, you wouldn't be eating them at all.

I don’t. I’m A vegetarian, working towards veganism, with an ability to empathise and support others trying to make empathetic and rational choices.

What exactly are you contributing apart from hypocrisy and dismissal?

@Veterinari please do not insult my intelligence by telling me to go and buy a dictionary

Why not @Pinkyyy - it’s not as if you’re presenting any sort of rational evidence or thoughtful discussion to support your viewpoint is it? Just poorly-thought our assumptions and misinterpretations.

Buy local. As close to home as you can.
We have a butchers van that goes around here and I can name a couple of his suppliers whose children go to the same school as DC.

Supporting local,small scale ventures is the best way to prevent horrible mass farming.

OP the attached info graphic has useful info about the major farm assurance schemes to help you identify those providing the best welfare. More info at
www.bva.co.uk/news-campaigns-and-policy/policy/farm-animals/farm-assurance-schemes/

I try and buy more ethical meat as far as I can afford OP. It's not necessarily organic that is ethical but free range I look for.

Chicken is my big issue, we have our own laying hens so never buy eggs. Aldi do free range whole chickens and breasts and they aren't expensive, about £6 for a whole chicken.

Lamb has a happier life than pork before it is dispatched. And I think beef does as well. They live loose in large sheds over winter then out at grass over summer. So I prefer to eat beef or lamb over pork.

I do need to research pork more. I know it's intensely farmed mostly and lots comes over from Europe.

My farmer friend tells me morrisons and aldi are the most ethical supermarkets to deal with as a farmer, they buy British where possible and have higher welfare standards but still give a fair deal to the farmers.

Venison, especially wild venison is ethical imo, as is any wild game such as rabbit or pheasant.

Sustainable fish, especially locally caught is also ethical.

I also make sure we use all of the meat. Not quite a mn chicken but I rarely throw meat away. If we aren't going to use it, I either make another meal or I take it to my mams who can't afford to buy much meat.

We also have a few meat free days.

@frouby you're right, pigs are probably the ones with the worst deal. However I think I would rather be a pig in the best indoor units than an outdoors one some of the time, such as last winter!
If you can't find organic pork then look for outdoor reared, which means they spend the most of their life outside. Outdoor-bred basically means the pigs for meat spend the first couple of months outside then come in at weaning, but that does mean the sows stay out all year. But even then an indoor pig in Britain has a FAR nicer time than the majority of the rest of the world so buying British is definitely a step in the right direction.

As for small-scale, mine are in a stable and pen to get them out of the mud so are a bit bored, I'm off out to give them a couple of new toys and some fresh straw to mess about with....

Google local organic farms. We have one who allowed us to go and be shown round the farm we could see how all the animals lived. They were happy to show us. They slaughtered the chickens on site and showed us online where they transported the pigs and cows to for slaughter which was about 20 miles away. They transported their own animals. They also butchered the animals on site and sell the meat online and at an on-site shop.

The main issue with pigs/pork is slaughter. Most animals can be effectively stunned before slaughter, however there is no reliable or effective method of humanely stunning and slaughtering pigs which means they will generally always have a terrible welfare experience prior to death.

@veterinari I've never heard that before (though not doubting your experience, hope you see where I'm coming from by my previous posts). I know there were some places doing carbon dioxide stunning but they were big enterprises so not ones I ever visited.

I've been at three different abattoirs during pig killing morning (all definitely in active use as all three only have tiny lairages for pigs, always a short queue!) and never heard any distress noises, just the usual pig chatter, so kind of always assumed the electric paddle things were doing the job as intended?

Going to ignore the weird comments but why in god's name are you making two separate meals?

My DH loves meat and I am veggie. When I cook he eats what I make. If he doesn't like it he can cook his own dinner.

I don't understand why so many women do this. He should just be grateful someone is cooking a meal for him!!!

Pinkyyy

What a bizarre attitude.

We're trying to do the same thing at the moment. We're also trying to eat a bit less meat but can't really get on with meat substitutes. We don't find it too bad and we don't have a massive budget (although I wouldn't say £60 a month is that bad, but pretty much all of our money is on food!!) I would definitely say that Waitrose is best of all the supermarkets and the variety is very good. We're moving soon so hoping to find a good butcher when we do...does anyone know of any good butchers or producers in East Yorkshire?