Solids or no solids?

[californiagirl]

OK, I now feel utterly oppressed by the whole solids thing. I was going to wait until 6 months. I was willing to hang tough against the relatives and their cries of "mashed banana!" But I'm not sure I can hang tough against the baby. She's 4 months. She sits up with support forever, without support briefly. She grabs and mouths objects. She watches us eat food with that laser-like intensity normally only seen in dogs that know they aren't supposed to beg but can't quite look elsewhere. She can open her mouth without sticking her tongue out so that you can put things in it. She's twice her birthweight and has two teeth. Now, I'm not planning to run right out and stuff her with pizza, but it's beginning to seem like waiting until 6 months is a bit much.

On the other hand, I have food allergies, and the baby is beginning to look like she has exczema.

I'm not having a good day somehow, and this is beginning to seem like a defining issue where I'm going to ruin the baby's life; every time I look at one of those lists of things you shouldn't feed the baby (no wheat, corn, berries...) I think about my parents, who fed me whatever they were eating that mashed up well. And I suppose I am allergic, but I'm seafood allergic, and I'm pretty sure I didn't eat shrimp at 4 months, if only because my parents wouldn't have wasted a perfectly good shrimp on a baby. What good is feeding solids if you can't give the baby a piece of bread to keep her quiet in a restaurant? (Yes, I know, this is not an immediate issue at 4 months, but as I said, I'm having one of Those Days.)

Hi CaliforniaGirl
My paediatrician gave me 'permission' to start introducing solids at 4.5 months and now at 6.5 months we are in full flow (today she had lamb, leeks and carrots). I think if you take it slowly it should be fine, just introduce a new food every 3 days so you can see if she has a reaction. I wanted to wait until 6 months too however my dd was like your's - she looked so upset when we were eating and she couldn't! Sadly she hates mashed banana & avocado - it would save me so much cooking!
I'm off to bed as as I think I'm 2 hours ahead of you, in Texas, and I'm exhausted! I hope someone else is up/ the other side of world so they can help too!
Best of luck, mit xx

If you wait until six months you don't have to worry at all about what you feed her - which is an advantage! If she is contented generally, I'd be strongly inclined to wait.

Second aloha on this. Sure, she's showing an interest in food, sure she's mouthing things all the time, and probably dribbling too -- she's moving towards being ready for weaning. That doesn't mean she's ready right now.

If she has allergies, all the more reason to wait -- after six months you can move straight onto more normal food and not have to worry about the 'no milk, no gluten, no la-di-dah' business.

Weaning really isn't that exciting (I'm on baby 3 now, and believe me, it isn't). Why spend an extra two months of your life messing about with little itsy bitsy spoons of puree and risk giving the baby allergies to boot? Here's the scientific lowdown.

Not that I have strong views on this, or anything...

CG I really sympathise. DD2 is nearly 5 months, and exactly the same developmentally as yours. The teeth are making bf interesting!

I gave her some baby rice mixed with EBM yesterday and she went for it with gusto. Didn't give it to her today though as she hadn't pood since before I gave the baby rice yesterday, and I was worried about constipation. Has just pood though, so will do it again tomorrow.

DD1 has terrible eczema and allergies (and I rushed to wean her at 16 weeks so now feel mega guilty - although I bf her until 11 months). I wanted to wait until 6 months too with DD2 but have found she's been waking at odd times, and never seems satisfied no matter how much milk I offer. So I spoke with HV yesterday and got the OK. Interestingly, she said she was seeing increasing numbers of mums with really hungry babies, and having to 'give permission' to them to start on solids.

What she did say to me was that the WHO advice re 6 months is generally aimed at those in developing countries, and those for whom bf would not be a first choice - to try to press home the importance of giving bf a go, and of not rushing to wean until the baby was really ready - ie there is no nutritional need to do so. I think this is a good point, but you have to look at the needs and development of your own baby too.

She recommended that I just stick to baby rice, with possibly a bit of pureed fruit or veg mixed in in a few weeks time. Then, once she's 6 months, I can introduce the rest of the stuff. I think I'm going to do this, but avoid all the allergy inducing stuff for as long as possible. I figure I can still give her an interesting diet on fruit, veg and the relevant proteins.

good luck whatever you decide to do

Hi CG. I think you have my baby's long lost twin! dd, 5.5 months now, has 2 teeth and hangs on my every mouthful. The gumming thing is a normal baby reaction, it feels good I suppose. My dd spent a whole day before 1st tooth with her tongue hanging out, I have hilarious pictures. I am hanging on until 6 months - would go longer except dp really wants to start.

It is really hard to continue exclusively bfing past 4 months because of the social pressure and also my dd had a growth spurt and seemed to be really hungry. I hung on cos I know my milk had all the calories she needed and she would be really ready at 6 months. I found the thought of spooning baby rice into her and watching in fall down her face abit depressing.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

It's so difficult especially when the "advice" by hv changes from one year to the next! My twin 5 year olds were 7 weeks premature so I never knew whether to go by their real birthday or when they should have been born. The hv scared me into weaning at 5 months after the actual birthday as she said if they weren't chewing by 6months they would have difficulty talking!!!!!! Please God save us from hv.

Much sympathy CG - I had the same - ds was 22 lbs at 5mths and we eventually gave into other-mummy-pressure at 5.5 mths even though ds could have waited another couple of weeks or so.

Personally I would ignore worrying about the "visual" signs of mouthing/watching you eat/having teeth and concentrate on your baby's behaviour. What I mean is - has she started being grumpy and discontented during the day? Is she still really unsatisfied after a feed? Has she started waking in the night and only a feed will settle her?

Re the watching you eat thing: I always figured that ds would watch me intently if I had a tennis ball on my plate or was licking an envelope - he was fascinated by mouths generally and would stare at me as I talked when he was this age. But I don't think he was begging me to feed him solids - do you see what I'm getting at? She maybe physically ready "externally" chew and swallow some mush, but "internally" her tummy is still that of a 4 month old with only 4 months worth of digestive enzymes, not 6 months worth.

Like others have said, if you wait til 6 mths then you can skip the hideous baby rice altogether and go straight to more interesting veggie/fruity/meaty things - far more appetising and more likely to encourage your dd than wallpaper paste. It's a much faster progression from mush to lumpier stuff too than having to puree everything to bits.

And a health visitor will agree to anything you suggest really. My SIL was told (last year) to wean her 9 wk old (5 weeks prem) ds!

All the best, but don't panic!

Utka, your hv is, I'm afraid, talking crap (as usual!). The WHO recommendations are NOT aimed at developing countries and they are NOT only for people for whom breastfeeding would not be a first choice. She's just either a/made it up or b/heard it from some other equally misinformed HV. it's all to do with the health of the baby and the readiness of the gut - and babies are exactly the same physiologically in the West as in the developing world.
BTW this isn't an attack on you. I weaned just before four months myself for no good reason except this hideous pressure and lack of support from health 'professionals' - completely unnecessary (though harmless) in my case.

Californiagirl - if you can try and stick with the six month guidance. Babies at this age do not put things in their mouth because of hunger, it is because that is how they actually feel things. It is known as the oral phase. As a mother of 4, starting solids is the start of hassle when out and about let me tell you, best delayed as ling as possible for that reason alone. Babies pass through stages very quickly, I bet the past 4 months have flown by so 2 months is actually not that far away.

Utke - your health visitor is not actually correct saying the WHO guidance is aimed at the third world. There is info on the NHS website about preferred weaning at 6 months and at our hospital we have for some time now given women this information.

Well done you californiagirl for breastfeeding exclusively at this stage. Give your baby a plastic teething ring or other teething toy to chew in a restaurant instead of bread - she will be just as happy.

Hi Aloha

I don't think she's hungry for solid food; I think it's something she wants to learn how to do, if you see what I mean. She's happier with a spoon that I'm holding the end of than with a teething toy, because she can stick it into her mouth farther and practice extinguishing her gag reflex (sticks the spoon in until she coughs, pulls it out, repeat repeat repeat repeat -- seems to enjoy it, cough and all).

And I guess I'll hold out. But I still feel sulky about this 6 month thing. How do I know she has the digestive enzymes of a 4-month old? She has the teeth of a 6-month old. Why is this the one baby thing that doesn't happen at different times for different babies?

And if I follow this advice, do I have to follow all the other rules too, in which case I can't just feed her anything at 6 months, I have to start with rice cereal anyway and feed her almost nothing off my plate until almost a year, as dairy, meat, wheat, and tomatoes are all on the delay list? I'm more afraid of 6 months trying to meet those rules than of two months trying to keep her out of my plate (although Monday a lucky lunge got her within millimeters of having chopped cilantro as her first solid food)

I think that's just it, C'Girl, if you wait until 6 months you can skip the baby rice, go straight onto veg. Think about it this way -- which will you regret more later? Starting her on solids or not starting her on solids? If she comes up with any allergies, wouldn't you blame yourself for it?
Am speaking as someone who started mine before 4 months old, too, and still fret I did the 'wrong' thing. But (for instance), by 4.5 months my 2nd baby used to wave every limb in anticipation, DROOL, and cry if we didn't offer her at least a taste, when she saw us getting our own plates of food out. And she was still on lots of breastmilk, honest.

Personally I would offer wheat/dairy/tomatoes/pureed meat to a 6mo. old, but maybe that's just me! I'm sure that bread & breadsticks were suggested by many as good finger foods for 8 month olds on a recent MN thread.

But if I delay to 6 months and don't follow all the other allergy rules, won't I feel just as bad if she ends up allergic? And what if I delay until 6 months, follow all the rules, at great annoyance to me and the baby, and she still ends up allergic, which wouldn't surprise me in the least as I inherited my mother's bizarre allergies to cinammon oil and iodine, and I know for sure I wasn't allowed to have anything with cinnamon oil until I was old enough to buy it with my own pocket money. (At which point I happily ate red hots for over 10 years before the allergy kicked in.)

actually the wait until 6 mths advice is based on mothers who exclusively breastfeed and is down to the makeup of little things in babies bodies, there is not the same advice from bottlefed babies but it seems logical to wait as long as possible to avoid the potential problems esp if you have allergies already.
You're a mum, you can do what you like, but if she isn't really looking or seeming hungry, usually brokensleep is the telling factor but also beware of teething thowing you up on that one too...
I'd wait and both times I have... but then I never had a hungry baby as yet!

Not that she is necessarily an expert, but a friend of mine who is a medical professor told me that she thinks the WHO changed the advice from 4 months to 6 months mainly to encourage women in developping countries to avoid solids longer; the sanitary conditions are often such that b/feeding exclusively is much less dangerous than giving solids. If there are probs with allergies in the family you just have to be extra careful about what you give at first, and keep to a few things. I wanted to wait till 6 months at first too, but DS wasn't growing v fast and stopped pooing - he was obviously absorbing everything I could give him. He's been on solids for 2 months now and has jumped up 2 percentile bands. And I'm not putting miracle grow in the food, honest!

For me th e brilliant thing about waiting until 6 months was that I skipped the rice nonsence and started with pureed veg. Within a few weeks my 4th baby was on 3 meals a day, many of which were just what we were eating pureed. I never did the Annable Carmel type thing - tinned tomato soup went down a treat plus mince and tatties . (minces beef and mashed potatoes in English)

OK, so I feel better about kellymom's suggestion that the development cues to look for include sitting up without support and using a pincer grasp. Because I just can't believe that 6 months is magic, and even though I do believe that it reflects maturity in things you can't see, I want some cue I can see.

And there's no way I can possibly keep track of any of the lists of things she shouldn't eat after 6 months (and trust me, the US is full of them). I think I'll just cite the UN as my justification for letting her eat what she can.