Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Food/recipes

For related content, visit our food content hub.

What are the worst food/ingredients to be avoided?

69 replies

Tinkerboo · 30/11/2006 19:34

I have noticed on other threads that people have lots more knowledge on this than me. I thought I was reasonably(ish) healthy but now wondering??
So please what would you DEFINETLY avoid giving your children and most importantly WHY?

C'mon food police let loose I REALLY want to know!

OP posts:
Piffle · 30/11/2006 21:48

it's all about balance
butter on your toast, a sandwich, in your mashed spuds or baked potato or in cooking is well within your daily guidelines for fat.
WE use butter quite liberally in this house we buy it in 1kg buckets - it lasts between 1-3 wks depending on what we make.
only my dp is overweight and he works away from home 5 days a week!
Also kids have higher need for fats.
But yes olive oil is good

Tinkerboo · 30/11/2006 21:50

So even hydrogenated fats in moderation?

BHF saying these and saturated fats cause heart disease. So if saturated in moderation? Hydrogenated in moderation?

OP posts:
Piffle · 30/11/2006 21:52

no not hydrogenated fats, these are trans fats and are bad.
They are manufactured from decnt fats to improve shelf life taste and textur to enable them to be used more easily and cheaply in pre baked goods esp baked goods.

Tinkerboo · 30/11/2006 21:57

So why are they bad Piffle? Just being manufactured or cheap doesn't make something bad. You may susoect it does but I want the evidence. If trans fats are bad, Why? What do they do inside your body that is bad?

As I said on the Brit Heart Found website they did say there was a link with trand fats and heart disese, but also with starurated fat and heart disease. So why trans fat so much worse?

Just being manufactured not a reason. lots of manufactured things that are good for you.

OP posts:
Tinkerboo · 30/11/2006 21:58

Whats wrong with cheesy strings?
genuine seeking of enlightenment sought.

OP posts:
saggarmakersbottomknocker · 30/11/2006 21:59

Hardening of vegetable oils by hydrogenation produces trans-fats, which cannot be properly digested by the body. Hydrogenated are bad, trans-fats are bad. Avoid hydrogenated and you'll avoid trans - I think (??)

saggarmakersbottomknocker · 30/11/2006 21:59

Trans fats can't be properly digested and increase bad cholesterol.

Piffle · 30/11/2006 22:01

Trans fats, or trans-fatty acids, are the more popular name for HVOs (which, confusingly, are more correctly PHVOs, partially hydrogenated vegetable oils). They have been the food scare of this summer. TF or TFAs are - a quick Google will tell you - the "killer fat", the "Franken-fat that will not die", "more deadly than saturated fats", "furring up our bodies like old kettles". Look a bit further and you can find trans fats "linked" - that dangerous health campaigner's verb - to disorders from Alzheimer's to autism. "Over the years there has been some very good research on TFAs," says Tom Sanders, professor of nutrition and dietetics at King's College, London. "And there has been some ridiculous crap written about them."

But it seems generally agreed that trans fats, like saturated fats, can raise cholesterol levels, put "plaque" on our artery walls and thus in some cases bring about heart attacks. Our bodies find the hydrogen-altered oils hard to break down - in a standard campaigner's formulation: "Would you melt Tupperware and put it on your toast?" Or as the Food Standards Agency puts it, in less loaded language: "The trans fats found in food containing hydrogenated vegetable oil are harmful and have no known nutritional benefits. They raise the type of cholesterol in the blood that increases the risk of coronary heart disease. Some evidence suggests that the effects of these trans fats may be worse than saturated fats."

Alex Richardson is senior research fellow at Oxford University's department of physiology, and director of the campaigning charity Food and Behaviour Research. She believes that Britain should follow Denmark, which has had legislation since 2003 limiting the amount of trans fats in food. "There's nothing to say in trans fats' defence," she says. "They appear to be more dangerous than saturated fats, they have no nutritional value, they are an artificial, toxic fat that we don't need. I don't see just why we can't have them out of the food supply. We have a major public-health problem here with diabetes and heart disease, and losing one contributory fat is a step towards the solution."

The novelty of trans fats in Britain, as opposed to the US, is that they are virtually invisible, lurking on most food labels only in the gap between the number given for "total fats" and the sum of poly-unsaturated, mono-unsaturated and saturated fats listed. If they are listed. Thus, unless you shop with a calculator and a magnifying glass, you are consuming unknowable quantities of trans fats in "healthy" butter substitutes, pastries, cakes, breakfast cereals, snack bars, pizzas, doughnuts, processed cream and ice cream, prepared food designed for vegetarians and, most significantly, deep-fried food.

There is more. Trans fat-laden pastries are abnormally stable - there is a campaigning nutritionist in Chicago who goes on television with a 22-year-old cupcake that still looks as fresh as the day it was baked. And - get this - the invention of the hydrogenation of oil was the trigger for the mechanised slaughter of whales during the 20th century. Whale oil, stabilised by the hydrogenation process, became the most valuable part of the animal. It provided up to 40% of margarines such as Stork and Echo whose taste spoiled so many childhood sandwiches in the 50s and 60s. And so campaigners such as Oliver Tickell, who runs the British anti-trans fat campaign, TFX, now maintain that butter may be healthier for you than trans-fatty margarine.

The food scare of the summer has also been a food campaigner's triumph. In this country, before June, many people probably hadn't heard of trans fats. But then came a rush of scary research - that adverse publicity the Cookeen lady talked of. First, via New Scientist magazine, which reported how 51 vervet monkeys fed trans fats in an experiment in North Carolina appeared to grow dangerously barrel-shaped (it is better to put fat on your bottom, the pear-shape, than around your tummy, where your heart and lungs may suffer). The monkeys, who had been on a high trans-fat diet for seven years, had fared worse than a control group fed merely on saturated fats - the traditional "bad fats". They were also showing early signs of diabetes.

At the end of July, the British Medical Journal published a review of a vast amount of disparate research, which concluded that a 2% rise in our energy intake from trans-fatty acids (say 5g of trans fats a day) "was associated with a 23% increase in the incidence of coronary heart disease". Trans fats had "no nutritional value" and adverse effects showed that even when intake was very low, at about 2-7g a day (100g of Cookeen has 2g of trans fats in it, according to the product's label, while a KFC Colonel's Regular Crispy Strips and Fries can - acccording to a New England Journal of Medicine article earlier this year - contain 4.4g a portion, derived chiefly from its frying oil. Butter contains anything from zero to 3g, but trans fats derived naturally from animals are not believed to be harmful).

In its editorial, the BMJ called on the government to legislate to reduce trans fats to less than 2% of food content (as in Denmark) and force manufacturers to quantify trans fats on labels (as has been done in the US since the beginning of this year). And at least two studies have shown that hydrogenation destroys the healthy Omega 3 oils, and that eating trans fats may block their uptake.

By the end of August, four big British supermarkets (Marks & Spencer, Tesco, Sainsbury's and the Co-op) had all issued deadlines by which they said trans-fatty acids would be gone from their own-label products. Kellogg's, United Biscuits, Nestlé and Cadbury Schweppes issued pledges to reduce or remove TFAs from theirs. The food industry was waving a big white flag: the trans-fat war seemed to have been won before it had really got going. Surprising: Big Food is normally more tenacious. But there is, of course, more to the story.

For a start, trans fats were fast becoming history anyway. This is chiefly because of the rather more advanced anti-TFs campaign in the US, which has been boosted by an unequivocal view from the medical establishment: banning trans fats could save 30,000 American lives per year, the Harvard School of Public Health announced as long ago as 1994. The US campaigners have had some stunning results: McDonald's settled a class-action suit last year with a donation of $7m (£3.7m), admitting it had failed to follow through on a 2002 promise to reduce trans fats in its cooking oil. In 2003 Kraft was successfully sued over trans fats in Oreo biscuits; KFC is now facing a similar lawsuit over its cooking oil. Since January 2006, food labels in the US have had to state trans fat quantities. And Chicago, which in August became the first US city to ban foie gras, may soon be the first to ban trans fats in restaurant cooking oil.

The growing row over trans fats led the US food industry to start researching substitutes: the availability of the new oils may explain why the British food giants are apparently acceding to the campaigners' wishes so swiftly and gracefully. A new refining process called interesterification has meant that the trans-fatty acid- bearing oils can be replaced without extra cost, while retaining what the industry calls "pleasing mouth-feel". If you really want to check this out, take a swig of Unilever's unaccountably popular Elmlea cream substitute - which stays "fresh" for eight weeks with its top off and contains an amazing 26% hydrogenated vegetable oil.

So for the British supermarkets and food processors, the expectation is that it may cost very little to get rid of trans fats and mollify the increasingly suspicious shopper. But there has been little movement from the fried-food industry, which seems wedded to its cheap deep-frying oils, whose hydrogenation means you can use them for longer without changing them (up to three months in some chippies). McDonald's uses EU-subsidised rapeseed oil for frying in Britain and it contains 16% trans fats. The company told me it is "currently evaluating even lower trans content frying media".

Oliver Tickell, of TFX, is calling for legislation to force the food-service sector to be open about trans fats. "Fast food, pub food, restaurant food, high-street bakeries and fish-and-chip shops don't have to label the presence of hydrogenated oil on their products. They haven't come under significant consumer pressure to get the hydrogenated oil out for the simple reason that people do not know it is there."

In the supermarkets, though, we will soon catch up with the US, where snack bars and pastries increasingly carry "Now with no trans fat!" banners. This has led, say some, to higher sales. "People think they mean 'no fats'," says a lobbyist from the Washington-based Centre for Science in the Public Interest, "But a 'No trans fats' sticker sits on a Nestlé Crunch ice cream bar that still contains 11g of saturated fat."

"That's the problem with labelling," says Sanders. "It's the concerned middle class that read them - not the low socio-economic groups. It's rather like putting warnings on cigarette packets. Availability is the key."

Since the late 70s, Sanders has seen partially hydrogenated vegetable oil researched and re-researched, declared safe, unsafe and very unsafe. So what does he think now? Are TFAs more dangerous than saturated fats? He is more equivocal than Richardson, but still concludes that trans fats are best avoided. "I wouldn't call either of them dangerous," he says. "That implies an acute and substantial risk to health. Cigarettes and alcohol are dangerous. I would say that trans fats may entail an increased risk: they are avoidable, so why eat them?

"Trans-fatty acids do not raise cholesterol as much as saturated fatty acids do. I think saturated fat probably causes a greater proportion of the overall risk. We've watched huge economic change in countries like Poland, seen their whole oil and fat supply change [away from animal fats], and we've seen heart disease drop."

During the post-communist 90s, the move away from a controlled economy brought a decline in subsidised dairy and animal fat production. So the Poles started eating more vegetable oils, mainly from rape seed and soy. Consumption of saturated fats dropped by 7% between 1990 and 1999, according to a paper produced by the Warsaw Cancer Centre and the Harvard School of Public Health. And their intake of polyunsaturated "good" fat rose 57% (trans fats weren't measured) - by the end of the decade, they were eating nearly four times as much fruit. By 2002, heart disease in Polish women aged 45-64 had fallen by 42%, compared with 1990, in men by 38%.

Sanders argues that much is hard to prove in this area of food and health - the obesity "epidemic", for example, does not appear to be accompanied by a rise in heart disease. It's a classic case of what he calls residual confounding, where the relationship between the chemistry and the problem may not be causal but it may be associative.

Most important of all, it's the poor who eat high levels of trans fats (the average British intake is just 1.2g a day, well within the strictest guidelines). "And people who eat a lot of deep-fried food and cheap pastries - well, their lifestyle is likely to be pretty bad as well. Cardio-vascular disease is always likely to be related to socio-economic station," Sanders says.

Richardson and Sanders agree that labelling on food products isn't working. "Trying to educate the people who eat the most fats is very difficult," Richardson says, "and all this bleating about voluntary self-regulation, letting the industry police itself just won't wash. Get real. The industry looks after its profits - the real costs of these foods are paid by the people who eat them and by the taxpayers who fund the health service. We need education, we need transparency from the food industry, and we need legislation."

Back on Easter Road in Edinburgh, I go in to Giovanni's fish and chip bar, where Jean Watson sells me a spam fritter for 90p. What was it cooked in, I ask? "Danish oil." What's that? She goes to look at the box. "Well, it's 20% vegetable oil, it says, and the rest is just ordinary oil, like." Jean has never heard of trans fats but she has had some bread rolls from the new bakery up the road. "They were lovely!"

Claire Coussmaker is a partner in the Manna House bakery and is its pastry chef. When she blind-tasted Drew's scones she had no trouble distinguishing the Cookeen one from the one made with butter. "This is a scone. This is cardboard." She held the Cookeen scone up as you might a dead mouse.

Piffle · 30/11/2006 22:02

cheestrings taste like shiteousness

jajas · 30/11/2006 22:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tinkerboo · 30/11/2006 22:17

Wow thanks Piffle that's EXACTLY what I was loking for. I'm presumimg and hoping you pasted that?!
I'm getting my head round it now, and thinking more home baking the way to go.

What though can I put on my toast(kids fine with butter) that won't make me fat or kill me?

Seriously cheesy strings? What's the bad stuff? You may not like them Piffle but DS2 had 1 and now is like a child posessed for another cheesy string fix. What's the nasty (and addictive) stuff in them?

OP posts:
PeachesMcLean · 30/11/2006 22:20

I've never tried a cheesestring personally, but they say 100% cheese on them. Are they still rubbish cheese instead of good cheese (whatever that means)?

I read a similar article to yours Piffle in the Sunday Times mag a couple of weeks ago. Was quite an eye opener (though very balanced, especially in relation to "meat".) I did then go round the kitchen cupboards and was fairly stunned... Most disappointed to realise that creamed coconut was actually a lump of fat. Shame, tastes gorgeous in my curries...

jajas · 30/11/2006 22:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tinkerboo · 30/11/2006 22:23

I do think it's interesting that I've witnessed many, and partaken in a few, V heated food threads with strident views from many on the crap we feed our kids, but when asking for the hard eveidece for this most seem strangely silent. I thought smugsnet food brigade would be rushing forth with advice.

makes me think lots of it is based on smugness, social cache, and 'being seen to do the right thing' etc, without really knowing why.

Not you though Piffle you've been a star and semi-enlightend me, and if you could just put the cheesy string issue to bed, I'll leave you be and be much obliged.

OP posts:
PeachesMcLean · 30/11/2006 22:23

So do they have more saturated fats / less calcium than a normal block of cheddar?

jajas · 30/11/2006 22:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tinkerboo · 30/11/2006 22:25

So what's rubbish cheese and good cheese? Cheese good for you in moderation, no?

OP posts:
Tinkerboo · 30/11/2006 22:26

Will do, thanks Peaches and JaJa.

OP posts:
PeachesMcLean · 30/11/2006 22:30

Well it says on the packet "100% cheese". Haven't got any in the houes right now but next time I'm in the supermarket I'll look at the nutrition thing on the back. Bee in my bonnet now. As you say Tinks, how on earth are you supposed to know!

jajas · 30/11/2006 22:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tinkerboo · 30/11/2006 22:37

I do only have organic meat JJ, and organic cheese, but sadly organic cheesy strings not yet invented and DS2 MAD for them.

Apart from not being organic I FEEL there must be soemthing wrong with them though.

I'm off to bed now but tomorrow may start a 'what's wrong with cheesy strings thread'. That should bring them out the woodwork and get some answers. Look out fot it.

Thanks for your help all.

OP posts:
jajas · 30/11/2006 22:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sweetkitty · 30/11/2006 22:45

tinkerboo - there is a cheese strings thread somewhere basically I don't like them as they are made from all the leftover bits of cheese, melted back together.

I'm not food police but have worked in the food industry so seen a lot of things being made in food factories. We eat butter, cheese, sugar etc as I prefer to give the DDs a bit of natural sugar than all the artificial stuff. They drink diluted fruit juice, DP and I have the odd can of pepsi when they are in bed. They have proper ham and chicken too.

Katymac · 30/11/2006 22:54

My dad says food should
Go bad
Go stale
Go off
Go rancid
Go mouldy

And that it should be eaten before it does any of the above.......if it stays fresh for ever - it should be treated with mistrust

doyouwantfrieswiththat · 30/11/2006 23:04

Aviatrix - I think the issue of mercury accumulation in fishes is more to do with their position in the food chain than their age - ditto organochlorine pesticides I think.

note of caution on the organic food issue - there are some naturally occurring chemicals produced by moulds which aren't healthy. I believe UK grown organic fruit & veg. is generally okay but would be wary of fruit/nuts/grains from more humid climates.

everything in moderation & all that