Introducing Formula when Breastfeeding

[Purp]

Dd is six months old and I want to start introducing formula so that I can gradually stop breastfeeding. We are using Nanny, a goats' milk formula. I thought I'd try one formula feed a day and on the first evening, about a week ago, she knocked back four ounces (with no ill effects) but since then she has not wanted it, mucks about with the teat, swallows a bit and lets the rest go down her chin and then cries so I breastfed her. I'm sure this is a common problem, as she no doubt thinks, this isn't my usual lovely breastmilk and bosom, get stuffed. I'd appreciate it if anyone has found any ideas which worked for them ie certain teats/spouts or whatever. Thanks a lot.

Purp - have you tried having someone else feed her the formula from the bottle? I have two friends who experienced this when they were trying to prepare for going back to work. Their dh's had to give the bottle (or caregiver,etc) because their babies saw them and wanted the breast!

I used the playtex bottles and nipples, which worked great - don't know if they are available in the UK, so sorry, not much help there...

Good luck!

Same advice here - I would get daddy in on the act, at least to begin with, if you can. Not sometihing we did much as I bf dd until she was 13 months, but for the occasional bottle it HAD to be someone else but me. Once she gets used to the bottle and milk then she might take it from you more easily.
Dh is the bottle expert in our house and we use NUK bottles and teats.
I'm just being nosey here, but why do you want to introduce formula to stop bf? You can slowly cut dowm feeds, replacing the fluid with water/juice from a cup and the milk with cheese/yoghurt/cooked milk eg porridge, cheese sauce as a 6 monther doesn't need as much milk now they are on solids. Thats what we did, just keeping in the end the morning and evening feeds after about 11 months. Sorry, you might have personal reasons for this, but I have met a lot of people who are told they should wean from breast to bottle and dont realise you dont have to.
Hope it all works out well for you anyway.

I like the idea of cutting out formula altogether! Aren't babies 'supposed' to have a certain amount of milk a day though? If you gave up bf at say, 8 months, how would you make up the shortfall? And if you make it up with cheese and yogurt etc, then whats the difference between that and giving them cows milk to drink? Genuinely interested as I never liked formula but couldn't manage to bf up to 12 months...

Sorry, just seen that you kept bfeeding in the morning and evening - so is that enough? Well clearly it is as you both have healthy children...when did you stop giving breast milk?

I've had similar 'problem' with dd at same age. Had you tried expressed milk in bottle prior to formula to get her used to the idea ? I would also second asking some one else to feed her if poss.

With our dd she was already used to occasional bottle but soon resisted formula (despite having used it in food)so I would offer her a small amount at first then breastfeed her, gradually increasing amount in bottle over a period of a few days until she only had bottle. Changing over 3 daytime feeds took about a fortnight.

Even now a month later she will take max of 4oz at a time (unless she's catching up at teatime)so she breast feeds morning and night and is offered 3 small bottles in the day. Her brother at this age happily breastfed am and night with 2 8oz bottles in between so each is different. By a year we were back to just 2 breastfeeds, morning and night.

We've used Avent bottles but are now thinking part of our problem might be the speed of the teats and are trying the variable ones to see.I think it is a matter of trial and error, and persistence.Also do make sure that the bottle is at the right temperature as our dd can be very fussy if she is not desperately hungry.

As the others have already said try not to worry too much about her milk intake and give her cheese, yoghurt etc as well (unless of course you're concerned about allergies or, like us, the doctor wouldn't approve!!).

Good luck.

I actually gave my dd cows milk to drink, on cereal etc from about 10 months. You are probably not supposed to do this but she is fine. We have no history of allergies etc in the family and so went ahead and she was fine. It wasn't much, just a wee drop in a cup to get her used to the taste more than anything. The advice I had was that cows milk should not be the MAIN source of milk before a year. I bf dd until 13 months (only gave up because I was expecting again).

Purp,

Seems a real shame to have done so wonderfully well to breastfeed until 6 months then introduce formula. As said already at this age you do not need to replace breast feeds with formula as you wean. Solids with milk components are absoluely fine with water/juice as fluids.
As also said it is OK to use cows milk in cooking but not as main drink.
It is worth pointing out that follow-on milks are expensive and unnecessary. There came to the fore when the advertising of breastmilk substitutes was banned and were a way for babymilk companies to get round it.
Your baby still would need some breastfeeds until about a year. If you think how fast the past 6 months have gone it is not a long time to continue giving your baby something they enjoy.

Sorry, still don't understand! Why is it ok to use solids with a milk component but NOT cows milk as a drink? Surely there is no difference? Why can you give a 6 month old baby a cows milk yogurt to eat but not a cup of cows milk to drink?

Enid,

A 6 month old baby's main food should be milk. Cow's milk is not adequate because it does not have the right balance of proteins, carbohydrate etc. Breastmilk is best and if that is not possible it should be formula. As the baby gets older, the solids increase and by a year the baby's main diet is no longer milk. Then cows milk is OK as a drink because it is no longer classed as a feed. Does that make sense?

Yes, thanks mears. But just to be pedantic, could you give the odd drink of cows milk INSTEAD of giving a cows milk yogurt at 6 months?

To expand a bit on mears' explanation: cows milk is lower in carbs and higher in protein than formula, but by six months this isn't really a big deal - the baby could probably cope with that ok. But the iron content of cows milk is relatively low for its volume, and a baby of six months who drank a lot of cows milk might fill himself up on it and not get the iron he starts needing at that age...the odd drink is fine of course, and it's ok to use cows milk to mix with other foods. Yogurt is fine.

There is a study in the BMJ and I think it was August 2000 that showed babies on cows milk alone (alongside other foods) from eight months showed no diff in iron status compared with babies on follow on (marketed as being better for babies than cows milk b/c of iron).

I think a lot of formula marketing is just that - marketing. Most formula fed babies will be fine having cows milk as a drink before the recommended age of a year as long as they are getting iron from other sources - those other sources could be breastmilk (whose iron content is readily absorbed) or other foods which have iron in them (meat, eggs, cereals etc ).

Thanks everyone for your ideas and views, I've only just managed to get back on the computer and must be quick even now. I was very interested to hear about not giving formula at all, if you keep giving an am and pm breast feed. Sounds great. However, I am only just putting dd onto solids so I guess I should wait until she is on 3 meals a day?

Why then to most people seem to breatsfeed am and pm and give maybe two 8oz bottles in the day? It seems a lot to miss out.

Just to complicate things further, in our house we try not to eat much dairy food so I wonder if the soya yoghurts and milk would be OK.

I guess I really want to know especially from you Mears as you seem to be up on this, how much dairy food would you give the baby in the day to make up for no formula, which like Enid I would love to not use at all. Sorry if this is a bit unclear, I'm in a rush and with dd on knee.

Some nutriotinists are against soya before 12 months... I gave goat yogourt myself. DS does not drink any milk - hates it so when he stopped bf all together (his decision at 8 months old) he had only 1 goat yogurt a day of "dairy" ! But has a very good vegetable diet.
Why don't you buy yourself a good nutrion book like Suzannah Olivier : What should I feed my baby ?
It will tell you all those things... what's in what, ect how to replace dairy,...

hi purp,
I do not know why people give large amounts of formula and continue to breastfeed in the morning and evening. There is no need to replace breastfeeds with formula unless it is just your own choice to do so for whatever reason.
I did not give any of my babies formula milk at all. With my first son I started solids at 23 weeks and only breastfed him at mealtimes and bedtime. I dropped feeds from about 8 months replacing them with solids and juice/water. I was actually quite rigid with him which I then regretted after subsequent babies. I stopped feeding at 11 months.
With my ds(no.4) I started solids at 6 months and breast fed her whenever she wanted. I am not sure when she had feeds replaced because she would have solids and juice/water but if she wanted a breastfeed an hour later she got it! She weaned herself at 15 months but was only feeding once or twice a day. I did not consciously give lots of dairy produce to replace milk. She had milk in cereal, cheese, yogurt and fromage-frais. She does not drink much milk even now and she is a healthy 8 year old.
I think you are right to wait until your baby is on 3 meals a day before cutting out breastfeeds. Do not rush the process though. You can then start to replace b/feeds with juice or water. Although continuing to feed for a year sounds a long time, look back at how quickly the last 6 months have gone!
The book by Suzanne Oliver sounds good. Hope that has been of some help. mears

Purp - just to give you my experience of a baby who had no formula to drink. My dd dropped her b/feeds dramatically by the time she was on 3 meals a day, and by 8 months she definitely was down to only 2 feeds a day (possibly more if she needed comforting). I used to mix her cereal with formula once a day so she was getting a little bit then, but to be honest I wouldn't bother buying it again - I'd just use cow or goat's milk. She also had yoghurts etc. I continued to b/feed her until she was a year old - the last month was just one feed in the AM.

IMO I think that there is no need to be introducing bottles (especially if she isn't happy with them) at 6 months, she can gets her drinks from a beaker now so you can bypass the whole 'how to bin the bottle' problem in a few months/years!

BTW I've heard soya based products can be quite bad for little ones because the complexity of the proteins in it are very hard to process and can slow metabolism down.

Sorry, I know this has led away from your original question but its sometimes hard to believe things can be done differently from what you expect until you hear someone who it's worked for! Good luck with whatever you choose to do