Do children really need fruit and veg?

[Giuliettatoday]

I'm sometimes amazed that ds 2 & 3 still grow.

What I would really love to know is: Why do some (?) children completely go off fruit and/or veg once they reach toddler stage even though they ate it happily as babies?

My eldest (7) eats a very healthy and balanced and even adventurous diet(prawns, avocados, olives etc.) and doesn't need much convincing to do so. He borders on the underweight but is ok.

My 5 (also very slim) and 2 year olds (50th percentile) on the other hand eat no veg at all, and they are absolute dairy and carb addicts with some protein thrown in.

Plain rice, pasta, buttered toast (preferably white but I don't give in often) some parmesan, milk, milk, more milk, yoghurt, sometimes eggs or sausages or the odd fishfinger. They would eat loads of biscuits, cakes, crisps and sweets if we'd let them but we restrict it of course.

At least the 5 year old does eat an apple a day ;-) (really!), strawberries when in season and occasionally pears.

But: No veg at all, and I mean at all - not even tomato sauce to "hide" veg in, as they don't eat it in the first place, not even ketchup, funnily enough.

The 2 year old is rather worse as not only he doesn't eat any veg, but no fruit at all either.

I tried lots of different versions (pureed, not pureed, soups, crunchy, well cooked (veg), salades, whatever, without any success.

I've taken them to markets, looked at children's recipe books, involved them in the kitchen.

I have veg every day myself, so does my eldest, who shows funnily enough no interest at all in the shopping or cooking process.

Setting a good example to the younger ones doesn't help obviously.

All I get is a disgusted look, my two year old even cries when he sees carrots and potatoes (or any other veg in whatever form).

It's really sad but I don't know what to do.

My middle son rather starves himself, he often doesn't even realise that he's hungry, we only notice when he plays up (low blood sugar, we suspect?) the youngest just cries when offered something "normal".

"Hiding" anything in some other food doesn't work, as all of them like their food rather plain and separate, and even if they can't see it, they taste it. I once tried cooking three teaspoons of chopped, peeled courgette cooked in rice, the rice (otherwise loved) was rejected!

The thing is, many mums don't admit it, but I know at least one other child that refuses fuit and veg nearly completely as well and still grows.

Are there more children like that out there?

Is it really true what the "Experts" say that children need a healthy diet? And why do they so vehemently refuse it if it's supposed to be good for them?

Any suggestions and thoughts welcome. Sorry for the length.

Before I had children, I read about a theory that small children would instinctively choose what they need if offered a variety of foods.

Now I doubt it absolutely, but on the other hand I'm wondering that maybe it's right and they don't actually "need" so much veg?

if I could answer that I would be a rich woman. They do need it. THey will grow on any food but over the long term, it is the good food that will ensure them a good long life. Whether your kids are a fussy phase that will pass, or it is,like one of my kids, permanent food aversions, you have to work with it. I find smoothies are good way to ensure the good stuff you can make with a blender, milk or juice and load it up with fruit and add sugar to taste,or honey. Good luck. It is hard but even my fussiest child must eat a fruit or veg with each meal. He doesn't fight anymore, he knows that's the rule.

My DD (aged 2) is the same as your two youngest. She's a shocker ... I also don't know how she grows (she is on the 100th percentile for height and 90th for weight)
The only 'normal' meal she likes is spaghetti bolognese and if I hide grated carrot in it she won't eat it.
She comes running up to the dinner table shouting 'Yay, dinner time!' every night, takes one look at it and says, 'My not want it my dinner!' ... does my head in.

All I can do is make her snacks as healthy as possible (NO white bread in the house, biscuits to a minimum) - she will eat bananas and apples thankfully - and I give her a good quality children's vitamin every day to make myself feel better ...

My DS (6) is like your eldest - scoffs his veg, tries new stuff - favourite take away is Sushi for god's sake ... and is average weight and height ....

Yep, I have a refuser, ds2 age 3. He can sprint 30 metres, play all day and has great physiology. Never touched a fruit or vegetable, unless you coumt homemade chips and sweetcorn hidden in a deep fried batter cylinder and homemade strawberry icecream, in his life.

Does my head in

But he just preferes dry food, eats BBQ pork and noodles and fried rice from his dad though. The rest of his diet his very much like the one you describer Guilietta, but without cheese or yogurt ( that's YUCK for me)

I know there was ricketts and comsuption and TB and all but let us all remember our own ancestors of 180 years ago, unless very wealthy they would not have been having much fresh fruit and veg, certainly not daily in the winter and they survived.

I give cartons of fruit juice with added vitamins and an iron supplement.

I feel guilty too but he's healthy in all other respects. And if that Mockney Jamie O were to have a pop at me I'd rip his head off.

LOL at hiding grated carrots in spag bol. I don't think I would eat it either. can get away with mushrooms if i dice them really small.
When I was growing up, mum used to limit us to one pc of fruit a day cos it was so expensive.We certainly wanted to eat it then.

Sooooo happy to read these posts. I am not alone, hoorah for MN!

My ds (21 months) refuses all fruit and veg, except bananas and those fruit puree thingies you buy in little pots. So he has one or two of those a day cos I'm terrified about him having no fruit or veg.

Just one thing though, when he refuses to eat his veg with dinner (we ALWAYS offer veg), should I not give him the fruit puree? I always though that hot eating dinner meant no pudding, but at the same time, if he didn't eat any fruit puree, not one piece of fruit or veg would pass his lips. What do you reckon? Am I being a soft touch??

evansmummy, don't get emotions or rewards mixed up with food. My dd2 is a picky eater but she always gets fruit and yoghurt to make sure she gets as many calories and nutrients as possible. Making children clear their plates before getting pudding has been linkled to obesity and eating disorders.

DD2 refuses most veg, but I play the 'don't eat that carrot game' and suddenly they are fun again. If left to own devices she'll ignore the veg but I perservere and most of the time some gets eaten. The DD2 came alog and cold steamed carrots taken out as a snack for her suddenly became attractive again to DD1! Funny that. At school I get reports - 'Charlotte ate a carrot today' and at her nursery if I packed carrots and veg bits in her lunh box they get eaten.

nearlythree, making childern clear their plates can lead to obesity? No way! Do agree with the nutrients thing, though. That's why I do tend to give him fruit puree even if he hasn't eaten any veg.

Thomcat, What's the don't eat that carrot game?

DD1 ate everything until she was about 18 months and I mean EVERYTHING (courgette, broccoli, mango, butternut squash, rice, couscous, all meats and fish etc) in its natural state, just cooked if necessary. She is now 4.5 and will only eat red pepper, cucumber, tomato (mushrooms & onions in a tomato sauce if hungry) and for fruit, apples and grapes. She will not try anything new and claims to hate rice, couscous, mashed potato and so on. DD2 is 10mths and still at the stage when she will eat the lot - hooray. I am fed up of trying so give DD1 a balanced diet as far as I can and buy lots of the above foods so there is always something to crunch on! She is very small for her age, (0.4 centile) and this became noticeable just before she stopped eating these foods, but the consultant she sees at the growth clinic says it is not related. The main thing is to try not to be stressed and keep going on at her to eat things - she will actually gag on peas and broccoli sometimes. I think I find it hard as we were poor when I was a kid and I was always hungry, always ate up everything and never complained. For fruit, me and my brother used to share an orange a day! The funny thing is, I sometimes wonder if the food she used to get at the day nursery changed her palate, as they used to serve white toast, spaghetti hoopes etc... but this might just be me being snotty!

evansmummy, it's something that has been found is various studies. I've seen it in my own family, my dad came from a large family where you ate everything in front of you and as an adult he was always obese until he had a heart attack.

Oh, and dd2 (who doesn't have a problem with fruit and veg but does with protein and carbs) will usually have a pick of anything so long as it is on my plate and not hers!

I agree that clearing a plate can lead to obsesity - I am living proof that it can. Think about it - which is going to make you gain weight - always stopping eating when you get the signal that you are full or always eating until your plate is cleared. Do the latter for long periods of time & it becomes second nature to clear the plate over listening to your body & you start to lose the ability to tell when you are getting full so you just carry on eating regardless, which means you are likely to eat until you are overfull, thus stretching the stomach & meaning you will have to eat more to feel full each time, which means you will gain weight.

Back to the OP...Ive also heard that about kids generally eating a balanced diet if they are offered a variety of foods. I think it does help to keep offering the foods again & again, even if they keep refusing it. They might be instinctively not eating it because of an allergy, or they simply havent developed a taste for it yet, or gone off it for a while. I think it takes something like 14 tries for a child to like new foods so it pays to keep offering (& by that I mean putting it in front of them at mealtimes, but not drawing attention to it at all if they eat it or throw it off the plate etc, so as not to put pressure on the child). It also pays to give the same meal to everyone & eat as a family as often as possible so they can see others eating these foods.

My DS has just turned 2 & has only recently started eating tomato, despite us offering it to him since he was 1. I am wondering if maybe he had an allergy to it or if he was waiting for his digestive system to mature enough to handle it (his digestion has got noticebly better recently judging by his nappies). Reassured me no end that what we have been doing was right. It was very hard not to yell "Yay" when he first picked it up & tried it a few weeks ago though

Ive also heard that with young children especially its helps to look at their weekly rather than their daily intake for food as it will probably look more balanced. This is definately true for my DS - he has days when only certain food groups (carbs, protein, fruit, veg etc) will do.

I strongly believe in offering a balanced diet, then letting them eat what they like, without making a drama of it.

My Dd loves meat and veg/fruit but very reluctant on dairy. I think she is just naturally taking what she needs, which might differ from the 'ideal'. In fact, i really struggle to get enough dairy in my diet - really repulsed by plain milk - i suspect some kind of mild intolerance which she might have inherited.

It's a tricky one, I too believe in not making a fuss if children don't eat and just keep offering them good food but my dd2 has ended up with anaemia and now has prescribed supplements.