Being a vegetarian...at 6 y.o.??

[Panman]

I am a non-meat eater and my dd has now asked a few times if she can be one!!??

I am doubtful about removing meat from her diet, as I am unsure from where else she will get esential nutrients as a liitle one, esp. protein.

I am a 'live away' father, so am only responsible for some of her diet. But, knowing dd as I do, if she deceides on a course of action, she will insist on following it through thoroughly.

Is 6 too young to be not eating meat? Veggie books I have don't provide any lead.

Would anyone have some wisdom on this, please?

x-posted with your last post and about 15 others, Panman.
She could well have a tendency to be veggie, DS is actually fully aware of the animal / meat relationship - and made it clear when we were looking at some dear little spotted piglets last week that he is NOT a natural born veggie!

I thnk you are being extremely sensitive and sensible re her situation, her mother etc - good luck!

Rhubarb - kids do not all hate vegetables, don't be daft, woman! How do you think millions of veggie Hindu generations survive!!

Btw, my youngest sister went veggie about age 10, purely because she wanted to copy her grown-up sisters. Much to my step-mother's irritation. We did try to talk her out of it (feeling slightly guilty even though we'd never made a big deal out of it in front of her). Pointless. She's now been veggie for 14 years and is raising her own ds as a veggie too.

Vegetables are one of the few things my dd2 does eat!

Thanks all, but please don't want another thread war. Just had one in last few days on a thread I started on HSC and it got WAY out of hand.

I have gotten good advice from veggies and non-veggies and will re-read it ALL in a mo. wit ha cup of tea. I didn't expect this volume at all! Thanks again.

Glad to know we've been of service, even if we have been arguing amongst ourselves.

edam

Ooooh did someone mention tea....?

panman I totally understand what you are getting at, i am veggie, dh is not, therefore my kids get a choice at every turn. DD1 toys with being veggie sometimes and she certainly doesn't like 'chewy' meat. However my kids also knoe exactly where meat comes froma nd they realise that animals are bred for food and although I don't want to eat tem, they can if they wish.

Rhubarb I also understand you point about not giving choices, however in some households where there is a meat eater and a veggie, they see two meals being served.

Others have said that Panman's dd is simpyu doing it to please him. Well yes, what's wrong with taht. We are constantly telling our kids what to believe, to think and how to behave, of course they will follow. IS that a bad thing??

hi crunchie.

no, not a bad thing at all, as you appreciate. Just as a 'live away father' I am being careful to not introduce a 'tension' in an otherwise ok arrangement IF there is no need for one. Hence my query about "is it too soon?" If, 'yes' I would be ok, if 'no', then I would be delicate about how to raise it, if it is in dd's desire list that would be an enduring one. Thanks.

Well I would do as Rhubabrb suggested in the beginning, serve her veggie food with you and she can eat meat with her mum. If she wants to be veggie all the time, then a conversation with her mum explaining that you have IN NO WAY suggested this and are actually against her becoming veggie and what does her mum think blah blah blah. could be the way to go.

BTW DD1 who is 7 always gets seduced by sausages

I still linger over chorizo sausages......the only thing.

Ah, see, bacon did it for me.......(and I hated it before I became vegetarian).....

Panman, you could also consider talking to her more about meat and where it comes from. The choice is not between 'eating Bambi' or nothing. We are all meat-eaters in this family, but try to buy organic and/or free-range meat (mostly from a farm shop, so I know it's local, not full of antibiotics, etc.). My dds are 4 and 6 and know that meat comes from animals and that it's better to eat meat that comes from 'happy animals' which have been treated well, allowed freedom, etc. Not sure to what extent dd2 has taken it on board, but dd1 definitely has. Dd1 would happily be veggie, actually, and I'm prepared for that conversation sometime in the future. However, because she sees all the adults close to her eating meat, the idea hasn't quite occurred to her yet in the way that it has to your dd. Anyway, you could try talking to her about how, if we are going to eat animals, it's best to treat them well, to ensure that they have a good life and nice food to eat etc. before we eat them. (PS I know that, as a veggie, you may not agree with this. Obviously, if you feel strongly that eating all meat is wrong, then this is going to be hard for you... but in that case it's not really surprising that your dd is asking to be a veggie herself.)

Good luck anyway.

Single plant food sources do not contain all the essential amino acids needed by humans and are often described as providing lower protein quality than animal proteins. Animal proteins such as meat and fish have all the essential amino acids and therefore are described as high quality proteins.

The key thing to remember is that somebody who is growing (e.g. a child) will be at greater risk of inadequate protein intake if they consume lower quality proteins (i.e plant proteins). Plant proteins have lower digestibility, lower energy content and lower protein quality than meat proteins. Consequently if a child's diet is going to rely solely on plant protein, they must get a balance mix of plant sources across their meals throughout the day.

With that in mind you need to ensure that if your growing 6yo DD embarks on a vegetarian diet, her diet needs to includes a range of plant protein sources in order to obtain the different amino acids to ensure her body has all its requirements.

Good luck!

Pan, I could lend you some books if you like. We are veggie and my ds is a great tall healthy thing. I haven't read the whole thread but speedymama is mistaken about plant food being a second class protein - this is a rather old-fashioned idea and many nutritionists now recommend a vegan diet as being optimum for health. Quinoa, for instance, is a complete protein and provides all the amino acids necessary for human health.

I admire your dd for thinking about the bigger picture so young in life.

Having read a bit more, I don't understand why anyone thinks it is a bad thing that Pan's dd is possibly imitating and emulating her father here. Surely we all ideally want our children to absorb our moral and ethical choices? I try to pass on my values to my ds and that includes the fact that I believe it is wrong to eat meat. Why would I do otherwise? It's something I feel strongly about and that is an important part of my beliefs about right and wrong.

Do you not bring your children up to follow your Christian faith, Rhubarb? Most religions pass on their beliefs to their children, it's natural to want to. I think it says a lot of positive things about Pan's relationship with his dd that she is thinking about taking on his moral beliefs, even when it means changing her own habits.

Oooh Franny....have you ever made succotash?

???

I agree, Franny, we all bring our children up with something of our own beliefs - religious, political, whatever.

Franny, I did not say plant protein was a second class protein, I said it was a lower quality protein because compared to meat, most plant sources do not contain whole protein. Quinoa,is one of the rare plant sources that does. Obviously the terminology these days is different from when I did my scientific training 20 years ago but the scientific facts about the basic difference between animal and plant protein are proven.

Also to reiterate, I was not disputing the vegetarian diet, just reiterating the importance of obtaining all the essential amino acids from a range of plant sources.

Speedymama, I am familiar with the terminology of different quality proteins but, as I said, this is an out-dated concept. You might want to try reading some more up to date information about vegetarianism if you are giving out advice on it. It is not just the jargon that has changed but the whole thinking behind what is necessary to get adequate protein in our diets.

This is from the Vegetarian Society website:

"You may have heard of 'first-class proteins' and 'second-class proteins'. To explain, proteins are made up of building blocks called amino acids. We need eight amino acids together to build one unit of protein. Meat and dairy products contain all eight amino acids, so they used to be called 'first-class proteins'. The vegetarian foods mentioned above do not (with the exception of the soya bean, and products made from it) so they were called 'second-class proteins'.

Originally it was thought that vegetarian protein had to be combined in specific ways in order to get enough protein in the diet, but it has since been discovered that this is not the case. All foods except fruits contain some protein, and basically, if you are getting enough calories you will get enough protein. If you lived on nothing but fruit, you would be short of protein, but in order to get 2,000 calories a day you would have to eat 400 apples!

So what we are saying to you is - don't worry about protein. Eat a proper amount of food, incorporating the main protein sources regularly in as unprocessed a state as is reasonable, and eat a good variety of foods, and you will get enough protein. You should also remember that too much protein is as bad, maybe worse for you as too little - an excess of protein can contribute to osteoporosis."

LOL! Its beans and sweetcorn mostly....supposed to be v nutritious...wondered if you had made it...im guessing though, you havent...so wont ask

And i wont hijack this thread any longer....

Sorry F&Z but if I want truely unbiased adice on vegetarianism I do not go to the vegetatian society website. That is not to say that what they say is not true, it may well be, just that I would need more than just what is written on their website to convince me.

However please don't think I am against vegetarian diets. Dh is vegetarian, I mostly eat vegetarian at home and like lentils and pulses more than my dh does.

I would say that it is more difficult to give your child a balanced diet as a vegetarian for various reasons. In my case because ds has consistently refused to eat any of the lentil/pulse type dishes we eat. This was true even when he was a small baby and I fed him cooked red lentils/dhal regularly as a baby food. He just doesn't like them.

Given that he happily eats most meat,fish, dairy and vegetables I personally decided ds should eat meat until he was old enough to decide otherwise and to understand that he has to eat some of these other foods if he won't eat meat or fish
and dh agreed.

In reply to the OP - I do think that 6 is old enough to have her wishes respected and you could provide only vegetarian food when your dsughter is with you. I would talk to your daughter's mother though and explain that it was at your daughter's repeated request.

Well, I do eat meat now, after some years of not doing so but my five year old DD1 is showing distinct vegetarian leanings and I'm fully prepared to accommodate them - frankly I'm expecting both Inferiorettes to go veggie at some stage, even if it isn't permanent.

Like you Lazycow, I prefer to get my info from independent, scientifically based sources. If your child is a fussy eater, ensuring they get the right balance of complementary amino acids could be difficult. For example, beans are low in lysine whilst rice is rich in lysine hence when combined, you get your whole protein but if your child does not like them, you have to either find alternative plant sources or eat meat.

I'm fortunate in that my DTS will eat things like lentils and beans so they have a mix of vegetarian and meat based meals.