EATING OUT WITH CHILDREN!

[Esme]

I love eating out with my 12 month old son. I try to do it as often as I can. I don't have to cook anything or clean up the mess that my son makes. It's also a great social time for my son as he usually gets loads of attention. I don't think I've ever had a negative response from anywhere that I've taken my son. I usually aim for lunch time or tea time (around 5pm) as this fits best with my son and also I feel that these are family times in restuarants and no one can complain if you are spoiling the atmosphere. We live in York and I've found that the best places are the following;

Cafe Rouge - small but staff remove push chair for you, bring high chairs and toys. Child menu available with crayons and colouring book. Non smoking section

Frankie and Benny's - Great for birthday parties as everyone sings happy birthday(highly embarrasing but kids love it) ballons, crayons and child menu. Non smoking section

Pizza Express - Vast building with plenty of space so no need to worry about annoying other diners. No child menu so only good if your child likes pizza or young enough to eat jars. Huge non smoking section

Blake Head Bookshop (Micklegate) Great bookshop with light and airy vegie cafe at back. Often busy but very child friendly. High chairs, beakers available. Happily warm up any food. I make loads of mess and they never mind. Young staff who are very friendly. Great children's book section. Smoke free

M&S cafe - very good. Good wooden high chairs, bottle warming available and loads of oldies to entertain your little darling. Smoke free

Slug and Lettuce - big and airy, high chairs. Be warned that after 5pm can be loud and smokey so avoid. It's a mecca for the push chair brigade on Saturday lunch times. If you like total smoke free zone do avoid completely althogh big and airy enough to deal with the odd smoker - you could be unlucky to get a table near a smoker and they do not have non smoking section. I do stress however that I've never found it smokey during the day.

Jbr, hope I'm never in a pub where you are then, most children don't run about, but as the saying goes if you don't like it leave. Where we live if we go out the kids go as well, and if folk don't like it then tough!. They are as entitled to go out as others are and learn how to behave in public as well, all our friends take the kids as well. Maybe we are lucky, most of the ones you see pulling sort of "lemon up the arse faces" are the tourists. Do think that the toys should be moved from where there is hot surfaces, if they ahve a comments book maybe you should write something about this down.

I haven't been out for a while, well a few weeks but I wouldn't take Jack to a pub. I guess it depends what you have locally. I don't mind children (obviously) and it is a learning curve on how to behave - if they do learn! But I live in an area where the kids are quite happy to tramp all over your garden and chuck balls at your window and it is usually the same kids, I know from experience because I recognize them, who aren't behaving in pubs!!

It isn't just that, anyone could take them as well. I might be over-protective but half of the parents get smashed and then their kids go up to talk to total strangers. It is quite late as well sometimes 8 or 9 o clock.

Two different issues here - children who "wander around" with full parental supervision, chatting to people who comment to them (this is lovely; my girls and I often talk to other kids with their parents) and children who are virtually unsupervised, racing around and being annoying to everyone. Children can be seen and heard (and should be) without being obnoxious - there's the difference!

I quite agree with you, Candy. I think you've summed it up in a nutshell.

Back on Simon Mayo's Radio 5 show tomorrow (Tues) - as a representative of mumsnet - and they're going to focus on this topic this time - but in a broader sense than just restaurants - ie attitudes to kids' behaviour in public places in general. So any more views/anecdotes, general or otherwise gratefully received. Nervous as ever....

My parents were taking myself, my husband and 2 year old Thomas out to dinner a couple of nights ago but the laid-back family-oriented place we were headed to was closed!

All dressed up with nowhere to go, we tentatively decided on a very swish, award-winning 4* restaurant that we used to love in our pre-baby days. Surprisingly, the evening went very well! I'll have to admit I was very nervous, especially as Tom had been ill and wingey (and in hospital only 5 days earlier!).

The restaurant had a highchair available, which was encouraging, and the waitress immediately took an order for Tom while handing out our menus. His meal arrived with our pre-dinner drinks and his drink came with a little umbrella and other assorted decorations which kept him amused until we had finished our entrees.

About that time he became a bit racous (but cheerful) and so I took him for a wander around the restaurant to look at the artwork on the walls, the roaring fireplace (it's winter in our hemisphere!), the grand piano and, most interesting to a 2 year old, the swivel bar stools and espresso machine at the bar!

There were about 5 other tables of people in the restaurant and nobody seemed to mind us wandering about, we had a few conversations with other parents lucky enough to have babysitters for the night and smiles from most of the people there.

He sat on Daddy's knee for most of the main course then went for a walk with his grandmother (to look at the plants in the foyer) and then back in his highchair (to play with a fork with a cork stuck on the end!) while we had dessert and coffee.

Ocassionally he was a bit loud, but he had the entire restaurant in stitches while he "conducted" very spiritedly to the Mozart being played!

To say I was nervous about the evening out with Tom would be an understatement and I was well prepared to leave with him if things got too hairy, but I was very pleasantly surprised, both by my little boy's bahaviour(very tolerant of the weird adult activities!), the attitude of our waitress and the attittudes of the other diners in the restaurant. On the way out one elderly lady complimented us on Tom's behaviour and said it was refreshing to see young children out with their parents!

What Chelle says about the attitude of the restaurant and other diners is spot on!. We take our son (nearly 2) out to lunch at all sorts of places. The only problems we have encountered have been when the attitude of the staff or other diners is hostile or unhelpful in some way. Our worst was at a restaurnat recently where they were unable to produce any bread or any other food at all within 30 minutes of arriving for our very hungry child. This led to tears of frustration and much to my eternal shame, the couple at the next table moving. How different it is if a child is immediately greeted with something to nibble on or an interesting drink. Similarly, at the Anassa in Cyprus last year we went at 6.30pm to eat in the allegedly 1 child-friendly restaurant at the resort. Our son who was then 18 months started banging his spoon on his plate which prompted the manager immediately to ask us to ensure he didn't make any more noise. Obviously this created a tense atmosphere which our son picked up on and needless to say, a miserable evening for all.

I actually don't expect restaurants to go to any particular effort for children but I do expect a friendly welcome and sensible accomodation of their needs. Equally, I think it is up to parents to ensure that their child's behavious is appropriate for the venue (i.e. lunchtime at a family pub is obviously different to dinner in an upmarket restaurant). It does seem to me though that many adults are quick to pick up on a child's "behaviour" when noisier/more irritating behaviour from fellow diners goes unremarked.

Two of the responses below highlight how much some people hate children!!

26May01 UK: MODERN TIMES - LIFE.
By Philip Howard.
An anonymous correspondent asked: "My husband and I were travelling on a
long-distance train. Several seats away was a mother with two children. One
behaved perfectly. The other, a girl of about three, was awful. The final straw
came when the girl began shouting all the worst phrases she knew. The mother
couldn't stop her, and burst into tears. There was an embarrassed silence. One
person then offered to take the little girl, but she just screamed. What should
we have done?"
Hope that there was some competent headmistress or a Scots granny sitting nearer
to the crisis than you in order to get a grip on things. But if not, at least
offer to help, with caution. This scene contains explosive elements that terrify
the English: infant tantrums, maternal pride, bad behaviour, (possibly) class
warfare and public scene.
Priests and Levites pass by on the other side, or at least shuffle off towards
the buffet car muttering grumpily. I carry clean red spotted hankies in my
breast pocket. These can sometimes divert screaming children with primitive
conjuring tricks. But if no one else does anything, you at least must offer
support, sympathetically, discreetly, kindly, not accusingly. PH Fran Collins
writes from Chislehurst, Kent: "The wife who was disturbed by the badly behaved
child should ask her husband to find them seats as far away as possible from the
stupid mother. Don't feel sorry for her. Parents deserve the children they bring
up."
Ann Standen from Milton Keynes, emails: "I was heartened to read that other mums
have been known to burst into tears publicly as a result of their offspring's
activities. When I burst into tears inappropriately in a car park, I was awfully
grateful to an older lady for simply asking if I was OK, and gently talking to
me for a couple of minutes."
Catherine Thornton writes from Keighley, Yorkshire: "Sympathetic support is what
was required by the mother, and what should have been offered by her
fellow-travellers, along with a cup of tea."
C.B. from London E4 recommends: "That little girl needs a spanking, or at the
very least a good shouting at. Ill-disciplined children are a menace. Railway
companies should provide carriages that are free from children and mobile
telephones. Why should those of us who have paid for tickets to travel be
subjected to public noise, bad behaviour and embarrassment?"
Jane Knightley writes from King's Lynn: "I recommend storytelling or reading
jokes, offering a pencil and paper (with mother's permission, of course), and
loads of sympathy and encouragement to the mother from the start of the
journey."
Peter Gibbons from Manchester writes: "On no account get involved. You will only
make matters worse, and be resented for interfering. Pretend that you do not
notice the bad language. Move seats."
(c) Times Newspapers Ltd, 2001.
(c) Not Available for Re-dissemination.
THE TIMES 26/05/2001

Regarding children in restaurants I agree that a lot depends on the restaurant and the attitude of staff. In my experience if they are welcoming and tolerent, that sets the tone for the other diners - unless you are unlucky.

My sons are loud and lively. In their minds a new place = an interesting place = a place to explore and make friends. This is fine in many child-friendly places, but it also conflicts with my desire for them to sit still at the table. Controlling them in a situation like this needs lots of concentrated attention - I don't mean telling off necessarily, but lots of distracting and entertaining! So if we intend to eat in an adult-like place, I make sure my husband is there too. So each child has one adult.

I think that the more adult the place, the higher the the adult child ratio should be. I hazard a guess that one of the reasons Chelle had such a good restaruant experience was because three adults were on hand to amuse and entertain her son.

As for children in public places, my sons go out with me lots and I find it can be stressful, but somehow it all gells together - and we have met with very few negative comments, even though I have to say my sons aren't the most well behaved children when we're out. Bribery helps my older son stay good. A treat at the end of the day -a reward for good behaviour, works well. Lots of crisps and other refreshments are a must for both. They eat their way through Covent Garden when I want to go shopping on a Saturday. I would love to leave them at home but can't. Also I feel that in some small way I'm doing the right thing. The more times parents take children into shops etc, the more child friendly these places will have to become.

On trains and the underground I've been pleasantly surprised at the response of the typical commuter to my children. Even in the rush hour. (Wish they had been as nice when I was pregnant). My son's fresh faces and chatter usually raise lots of smiles. Their noise is probably no more intrusive than the ringing of all those mobile phones.

Carriel - hope this is not too late for you, and good luck!

I agree to an extent, but why aren't some children behaving in the first place?

Today a charming little soul rang into me on a scooter, which I didn't think kids were allowed to have unless 16 anyway. He saw me coming and still just kept going in the same direction and ran me over. I gave him a mouthful and I was expecting the Dad to come over and have a go at me but he didn't, he told the little boy off. I actually felt a bit sorry then because I thought it was the dad's fault. Why was he on a scooter and why was he in the shops with it?

I get a lot of abuse of children because of my disability and I would happily string a few up! There are 4 year olds down the road who abuse me in front of their parents and then their parents say "they are only little, they don't understand". Some kids don't stand a chance.

I recommend a Harvester for kids. They have a reduced price menu if you go in b4 six. Also they have a salad cart so the kids can start to eat straight away. They have all the usual salad but also pineapple, currants and bread rolls.

The last time we went as a family with grandparents there were 10 of us, we had 3 courses with drinks and the bill came to £91.00, not bad.

Mothers of older children, please can I ask you at what age your child started to calm down when out with you? ie sitting nicely in restaurants, not running around and shouting when you took them to public places

Older children seem to be far more subdued when out. Is this boredom? Desire to be seen as grown up and cool?

Did this happen all of a sudden or not? Did you drum it into them? Do they do it to please you, or for themselves?

My son is 3 and sits quite well, so he's not exactly older. I would like to think he knows how to behave but I guess it could be a case of feeling intimidated by all the people.

My children have never been allowed to run around during mealtimes at home, so I suppose they've just transferred that behaviour with them when we've eaten out. They always regarded eating out as a treat and knew that bad behaviour would result in withdrawal of privileges!!

My 18 months old is generally an angel when we go to restaurants. I put it down to the following things.

1. He MUST sit in a high chair (he needs to be comfortably seated to enjoy our company and his meal)-only once did he not have one and it was very hard....
2. Service must come quick or at least I must have something to feed him within 5 minutes : bread, a cookie,... I also get him a drink (not alcohol obviously!!!)
3. I have books and a car to keep him occupied
4. Preferably he shouldn't be tired so I am always happy if he has napped before we get there as I know he will be easier.

I echo what Pupuce has said and I think there are things you can do to help the process go smoothly, for example the 'changing bag' is now a larger one than when my 18 month was newborn as it is stuffed to the brim with toys, books, snacks and drinks - I could NOT leave the house without these essentials even though I look like I have enough equipment to climb Everest slung on my back!!!

SUEW further to your posting of 28/5/01, we're going to Nottingham for the weekend at the end of July, please tell me where I can find this restaurant/pub (sorry I can't remember which it was). Any other tips for things to do with a 2 1/2 year old in the area would be gretly appreciated!

Bit of a tangent but wanted to let you know of a place to avoid if you have kids. I went with my sister and two sons (and mine so that meant three under three) to the Gourmet Pizza Co on the south bank in London. In brief, we should have walked out when the waitress shouted at us that we couldn't bring the buggies in, even though they were folded and we were going to leave them at the door. Went from bad to worse - waitress obviously hated kids, was surly, snatched cup my nephew was quietly playing with out of his hands and sat away in a corner - even though the restuarant was empty. did we complain? No, stupidly but we just wanted to escape. So my minor revenge is to post this and deter anyone from going there - it's the pits.

Just to recommend a fantastic child-friendly restaurant in the East End of London. Venus in the Park which is on the Mile End Road (E1) is basically Greek with an emphasis on good steaks. Even though our son was being the child from hell, the staff couldn't have been nicer. Three different waiters all entertaining him and after his main he was led off to the kitchen where he assisted in putting together an elaborate ice cream pud for himself. Our son was really on apalling form but from the staff's reaction, you would swear he was being delightful... Food is very good and excellent value and while the overall restaurant is fairly described as being a bit naff, I would really recommend it.

This is a very old thread but had to share this with you all. Went to the Science Museum today and have to rave about the food. Now that the museums a free we are visiting at least one a week and with a three year old and 7 month old there are plenty of meal occasions!

Today we went to the restaurant in the Wellcome Wing of the Science Museum where the kids menu is £3.50 for meal - pasta/pizza/sauasages & mash, with drink (milk or squash) and ice-cream or jelly. I don't usually go for the kids food as my daughter eats very varied stuff, kids' offerings are often poor relations and we can usually share something on main menu, but today I thought I would give it a whirl. It was fantastic, the pizza was big, simple (cheese and tomato, but LOADED with cheese), she wanted olives too which was no problem and not charged for, and the best bit was that the ice cream was an individual tub of Roscombe(?) Dairy ORGANIC ice -cream. So, well done Science Museum, but more importantly, pull your finger out everyone else!

Our local Ikea restaurant in the evenings is practically deserted, and open till 9.30.
Kids can get fish fingers and chips ( okay, I know it's not Anabel Karmel...) for an incredible 50p while you can tuck into Swedish meatballs!
Loads of those dinky highchairs too.