food refusal

[naysayer]

I've been looking for a thread about food refusal in toddlers and am not encouraged that the only food stuff I can find is about recipes... My dd is 3 and a half and every meal is a battle. She will not eat anything new, not even a bite. Refuses meat of all kinds, fish, cheese, pulses, veg, generally anything savoury, anything wet including soups and stews, potatoes, pasta, rice, wraps, dips, crackers, savoury nibbles like spring rolls or sausage rolls. She had to be dragged to the table and most of the time just sits refusing to even try a mouthful of what is there unless it's her usual.

She will try nothing new and only wants bread and butter, occasionally a Babybel, or fish fingers and Ella's kitchen sachets (yes, the baby food puree which costs £1 and which is the only way she will eat veg, my own pureed veg or normal veg would be refused). She will eat fruit but that's no help as it's sweet and not protein. School nursery refused to stop giving fruit as snack even when I said this was the same as she would eat at home and I was having trouble with her trying new foods and filling up on carb.

I am at my wits' end. Today, easter sunday, she has asked repeatedly for chocolate. When I tried to get her to take toast with a cheese spread she dug heels in and refused - this is the pattern at every attempt of trying to get her to take a bite of something new.

It has been two years of this and I am worried she is laying down appalling habits that will lead to an eating disorder. I swing between feeding her what I know she will eat, which means the same meal every day, three times a day, and resolving that I am going to starve her until she breaks. I asked for help from HV, who was useless. Everyone just says 'oh give it time, she will get what she needs' but this is getting ridiculous, she is almost pre-school and is absolutely resolved that she will not try anything new.

She does nothing but badger me for sweet treats. I have tried both techniques: of refusing treats 'unless you eat so and so' (doesn't work, she still won't) and allowing treats (ie not making them a bargaining tool - doesn't work, she still doesn't eat anything else I want her to).

Star chart is no success, neither is eating with us. Health good other than being very wilful. Banning snacks between meals makes no difference. Peers eating widely at nursery has not changed anything. Please can I get some advice.

OP, I could have written your post. My DS, also 3 and a half sounds exactly the same as your DS. I only stopped giving Ella's kitchen sachets in the last 2 months, but it does now mean he gets hardly any veg. He can eat fish fingers and pizza till the cows come home, but little else. Like you, meal times are a battle, though once in a while he will surprise me and eat well. Things he will eat are: Yorkshire puddings, cheese, bread, peas....I am now trying to think of other things he eats, but little is coming to mind! He drinks gallons of milk - some say this can be part of the problem, i.e. he is filling up on milk so not hungry. Don't know if this is the case, as even when he is hungry he doesn't like anything other than sweet treats - chocolate, cake. If ever I complain to family or people who knew me as a child, they tell me I was exactly the same, and had a dreadful appetite as a child. I think I was about 14 before I started eating well, I was a very skinny child, but am a healthy adult. There are days when I am desperately worried and other days that I think he'll be fine, it's a phase, it'll pass (though it''s a fairly long phase!) I don't really have helpful advice for you, just wanted you to know you are not alone!

We have the same problem with our youngest, she's 2.4yrs. Won't try anything new, refuses most of her meals but will happily wolf down fruit or treats.

I know it's not useful, but I've stopped keeping anything in the "nice cupboard" as she calls it, so there's nothing sweet on offer. At the end of the day, if we've had a good day & she's eaten most of what's been offered I may or may not pull some small treat out of a secret stash.

Also, I know the sheer amount of fruit/sweet stuff over and above everything else may be baffling, but at least she'll eat something. We've had days where dd will eat literally nothing.

Maybe try set times for breakfast/snack/lunch/snack/tea/supper & offer absolutely nothing in between no matter how guilty you feel about her not eating what's given/offered. It seems to be working for us at the moment, usually if I'm offering our kids something they've never tried, I try to include one things on the plate that I know will definately get eaten (last night they had enchiladas & salad with myself and dp so I plonked a few chips on theirs just so that even if they didn't eat the main part of the meal; which they didn't; something would be eaten.

Oh, & ignore the pestering for nice stuff, bit of a ball ache with the moany whiney voices they pull out I know, but stick to it! Try to distract with doing other stuff when she starts pestering.

Probably of no use to you at all now I've waffled away, but you're not the only one. Try not to let it get you down

Sorry OP, realised you have a DD not DS

Thanks both for support - it is good to know it's not just me. I started buying growing up milk, against all advice as I know it fills them up, but I was so worried about the complete lack of decent protein and vitamins she was getting. She only gets a cup in the morning of that but I just have to for peace of mind. Thanks pjd for the tip about being skinny - DD is very lean despite being tall and was a good birth weight, plus I bf-d her. I was lean as child tho not so much now...

Lucysmam the thing about the snacks is that outside agencies are interfering - I had words with the school nursery teacher about why on earth the kids need it when they've just had lunch and got all this guff about promoting healthy eating and their energy levels falling. It's crap, it's all because some poor soul somewhere was neglected so local authorities are covering their a. Same with private nurseries as they cram them full of breadsticks and apples and yoghurt there too.

I feel bad for withdrawing treats as I enjoy seeing her pleasure but she is starting to take the p* wanting trips to cafes and ice cream shops being the main focus of the day. I hate the conversation always involves 'no you can't have it because you didn't eat blah' or 'you can have this if you eat blah' and then she welches on her side of the deal.

I've tried the plate thing about including the bread or whatever along with what you want them to eat after a speech therapist friend told me to do that. Hasn't worked so far but I can see the merit. The nursery teacher also told me (once I'd stopped ranting tearfully at her) that she has had success with a technique where you put food X on the plate and get the kid to just kiss it, and tell them they are not allowed to eat it, and before long they are licking their lips and wanting to put it in their mouths. Again, no success yet with that but can see the merits and both of you may want to try that trick too! Thanks for help.

How big of a snack does she get at nursery? My oldest used to get fruit and milk or a slice of a toast and milk around 9:30 (I think because lots of the kids were dropped off between 7-8am so would have had brekky early in the day and probably be peckish by then) and then lunch at midday. If it was me & I really didn't want her having the snack I would speak with the head rather than just the teacher. Had to ask the person who ran dd1's nursery to stop them giving her seconds of lunch/snack as we have the opposite with her in that she will eat continually and it doesn't matter what it is.

Don't offer the treats as part of a deal, just plonk her at table with plate of food & if she eats it she does. If she does then a small reward at suppertime maybe (my two get a 10p bag of sweets, biscuit, bun..something small.... but not every day) and tell her that it's a treat for having been very good and tried something new.

I'm easily conned (especially by dd2) into getting something out of the nice cupboard, so much so that I have to make a proper effort not to actually buy anything to go in there and if either myself or dp fancy something that would be in it, one of us has to walk to the shop to get it. I think my point there was that if it's not in the house, you can't give her it. And you can refuse to go for it i.e. the trip to the cafe/ice cream shop.

Just say no, crack on with something else, either with or without dd & she'll eventually get the hint.

It's very hardwork and I do sympathise with you, it's taken weeks up to now of not buying anything and refusing to go get something nice & I think dd2 is starting to realise that what's offered is it for the day other than if she literally eats nothing then I give her a small yogurt before bed.

I forgot to say in there as well, that as random as it is, dd2's quite often shocking behaviour and paddying (literally throwing herself/random objects around the room) has drastically improved since cutting out the random snaking.

I could have written most of your post too about 6 months ago when DD was 4. She's now 4.5 and although her eating habits aren't perfect they are alot better.

Here's what we do.

She gets the family meal, well she wasn't eating what I gave her so I figured I was wasting my time cooking something special.

We eat together, whether its breakfast, lunch or tea.

If she doesn't finish there's nothing else. If its in the day this means until the next meal, if its tea this means until breakfast and that includes milk.

We don't ask her to eat anything or get drawn into discussions about what she's eating.

She's not allowed to take anything off her plate, but I've always had this rule with my DC. If its something they don't like they can't take it off their plate but they don't have to eat it.

When everyone else is finished we ask her if she's finished and clear away.

Took about a week for her to realise she was hungry and guess what, she's eating! It is tough though, especially when she's sobbing for milk and a banana at bedtime because she's hungry.

Haven't read the whole thread but have seen the bit about giving her growing up milk. Did you know that this can be consitpating which in itself suppresses appetite? If you are seriously worried about her getting enough protein and vitamins and minerals I think you need a referral to a Dietician rather than an expensive, counterproductive product.

You may find My Child Won't Eat useful too .

Thanks again. I didn't know that about the formula but she's not constipated and I only give her one cup in the morning (two today but she's been really poorly with a cold and eating even worse).

The snack is in the afternoon as that's when she goes to nursery but I still don't think it's needed so soon after lunch (however much she eats then). The nursery teacher wrote down what they get a choice of and it's 2 slices of apple, 2 of orange, 3 grapes, small yoghurt, 2 small breadsticks and dips, slice of toast, 2 quarters of sandwich filled with cheese or ham, 2 or 3 slices of banana, milk. It's a choice of up to 3 things from this list throughout the week. She's the head of the nursery and holds quite a lot of sway and was not for taking DD out of snacktime as this would single her out.

I am just annoyed that my choice not to give her a snack the rest of the time should be interfered with by others when there is a problem that I'm trying to fix. But even before she went to nursery she still wouldn't eat the same as us so that leaves telling her there's nothing else, and I just haven't been brave enough to do that yet.

Same with the nice cupboard (like that name!). I have already scaled it down and she gets only morsels of sweet things but I just need to figure out where they stand in relation to whether or not she's eaten well.

I'm unwilling to go down the route of referrals as I don't think it's a medical problem, and the HV was no help. At the same time if it doesn't get any easier I am worried about the messages she's getting about food. Will have a look for that book.

At least it's a healthy snack they're offering & not something sweet/fatty that they offer. Could you maybe ask them to offer one of the things to dd as a snack, rather than select three from the list. That way she still joins in but on a smaller scale?

I can't let mine go to bed on an empty stomach so know where you're coming from with not wanting to tell her there's nothing else. If nothing much is eaten all day then I figure a grumbly tum is going to mean an unsettled night so would rather give a small yogurt & drink to see her through to the morning (although my littlest asked for a bottle tonight for the first time in ages)

To me, to get something from the nice cupboard, I'd let her know that she can have something nice at the end of the day, if (and only if) she eats half of everything offered. It's getting easier for me as I can no see some of the plate where it's been at least tried rather than just the untouched food so can judge whether a treat is in order or not.

Is there a shop close enough that you could take her after tea time to get the small treat if she does well? Might that work as an incentive to try something?

We wouldn't let DD go to bed on an hungry for a long time. Took me ages to realise that she didn' have to eat anything at meals because she knew there would be something else soon. Once we cut out the milk and banana at bedtime she started eating her meals. Also, she was 4 when we started this so she was older than your DD.

As for the sweet cupboard, I'd say a couple of sweets if she's had a good tea would be ok.

How many days does she go to Nursery for and what times are the meals?

Eagerly watching for tips as I have a refuser as well (4.3yo DD3). I can't pinpoint when exactly the range of foods she'd eat dwindled, but I suppose the signs were there early, looking back. When we went on holiday, she would have been 8 months, I can remember offering her bits of food to try and all she would touch was the bread. She used to love macaroni cheese, risotto, shepherd's pie - all off the menu now. She will eat fruit, so the fibre/vitamin C angle is covered, other than that the foods she will eat are:

• cereal
• toast with Marmite or Nutella
• Pepperami (yuk, hate the smell, but the 19yo DD introduced her to them!) and Cheesestrings (but not cheese)
• cucumber, tomatoes
• kiwi, apple, pear, satsuma, bananas
• sausages, chicken nuggets (did like fish fingers but not as of last week)
• roast meat
• crisps/sweets/some biscuits if they are in the house!

Try finding a variety in that lot :( She also has a multivitamin or a spoon of Minadex each day just as a boost.

I have a very unfussy child with a huge appetite I have yet to find anything she won't eat - including raw onion and lemon. She ate a whole apple core, pips the lot! We have always had an extremely laid back approach to her eating to the point of being horizontal - we allow as much mess as the likes including wiping her hair with her food! - as much play with her food as she likes including us joining in with the play.

We only give her nutritious food she has no sugar and she only drinks water or milk (she is 2 now) she has never had a sweet and doesn't know what they are. We bought her toy fruit and vegetables which she loves to play with. I never criticise her eating or make her eat more than she wants. If she doesn't eat something that's fine I never assume she doesn't like it and she gets the same food again another time.

She has lots of fresh air and exercise - what ever the weather and she is extremely calm and also very creative and loves her painting - I don't fuss about messy clothes - she is covered up when she eats. At children's parties she heads straight for the healthy stuff as that is what she is used to eating - just thought I would share. Toddlers naturally head towards the food their bodies need at that point and know when they are full. She gets snacks when she wants but I only offer her fruit and I monitor the sugar levels of what she is getting - some stuff has tons of it when it seems like there isn't much eg petit filous

Re the veg sachets, would the mixing it with something else work? Just gradually 'dilute' with a bit of mashed up carrot, sweet potato or tomato.

Would doing something like making pizza help - if she feels involved, might that help her to eat it?

Plinketyplink - is this a brag post or are you trying to help the OP who has a child who is a food refuser?

I thought I had the food issue fully sussed. My DS1 ate every healthy thing going. Then I had his brother who is littleMrFaddy with intolerances just to add to the fun and realised it wasn't my wonderfulness but bloody sheer luck. You sound smug - dont do smug, it will bite you on the bum.

OP - I found giving my DS2 a new food with something he liked seemed to get him a mood to try it. I think the fact he was happy seeing something he liked eating made him mellow enough to try something new. His food likes have improved vastly. He's 3.

We also do lot of cooking together and going to the grocers with him picking things out. Still not great with veg but I am good at hiding it.

Plinketyplink, ds1 ate everything put in front of him until roughly 4 months ago, when he turned three. He doesn't any more. Don't count your chickens just yet.

I have tried the 'you can have some ice cream if you eat your meal' and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. It depends how stubborn he's feeling

However he has got a lot better recently and like someone upthread, I honestly believe because he knows his tea is his tea. He can either eat it or go to bed hungry. No supper, no milk. Nothing until breakfast the next day.

My ds is 3.4 so roughly the same age as yours. I allow him to have the same breakfast daily and he usually asks for a cheese sandwich and fruit for lunch which is predictable, but fine. I draw the line at giving him pizza or fishfingers every night though, which is what he would have given half a choice.

In your shoes I would start to get her to realise that she has the food you give her or she has nothing. Sometimes she'll go without but I honestly believe no child would intentionally starve themselves at this age. If she is hungry, she'll eat. But she knows she won't go hungry at the moment because she never has - in the end she gets something she likes.

I was smug with my pfb who ate everything until 3.8 when his DS was born! It went rapidly downhill from there. I can only agree that the only way forward is to offer everyone the same and clear up after a set amount of time (unless of course the refuser has suddenly decided he's hungry). There is another thread that talks about encouraging kids to try different things by having food heroes which sounded fun. I actually ended up bribing DS a bit, if you try these carrots, and eat them every day for the rest of the week, we'll go to XX park and playground at the weekend. The bribes were never food related. It did work relatively well, though he was a bit older and so understood better.

sorry I couldn't really care less if it sounds smug - I am telling you what I have done and that it seems to work - if that is bragging then that is just tough luck.

If you are really don't care less then dont bother to send me PM's. Ta.

I personally don't think your post offers the OP anything to help them except to make you feel great about you and your child. Which is fine but I think your child's good eating is due to good luck. That's my personal opinion.

i sometimes think that this whole business of variety is given down to us from supermarkets as much as nutrition experts. i mean, a vitamin's a vitamin, isn't it? and my grandma wouldn't have recognised a quarter of what's available today.

Pancakeflipper I sent you a PM because whilst I don't really care you should not make personal remarks it is extremely rude and not in the spirit of mumsnet, kindly restrict your comments. it is not for you to say what someone else will or will not find helpful - I have shared what I do and that is all - if everything is down to luck we may as well not even have the discussion and try different things - your posts in response to what I wrote are unhelpful and add nothing to the discussion.

I think the point I was trying to make is that eating is a very psychological thing and they pick up on our anxiety. It is easy to get into a vicious circle of child/adult anxiety - I dealt with the nutrition side by giving fortifield milk that is nutritionally balanced so I felt that took care of that side of things and just left the rest up to her - I think it is good to avoid mealtimes becoming a battle - I would take the line of 'well it is a shame you won't try anything new - you are missing out - this is yummy!' if they think they are missing out - or try reverse psychology of 'no you can't try this - its just me that is going to eat it yum yum! - try getting the toy foods and let them have a muck about with them or use an apple as a ball to throw and catch with - maybe try and bring back the fun. I also think that lots of fresh air to build up an appetite is a good thing and maybe start giving fruit as a reward/treat. Good luck!

JiltedJohnsJulie is giving good advice.
It is really common in my limited (and MN) experience for children of 2/3/4 to be quite particular in their food choices.
I've 2 SC and I DD and their attitudes to food are all very different despite all being given the same parenting approach.
Personally, I avoid battles and generally offer food which is in the range that that child likes - but won't make a different meal if that is refused (I've never had a complete meal refused, but often parts of it won't be eaten). I'd make a 'safe' meal with maybe something on the side new to try - but occasionally - certainly not daily.
My DD is pretty reluctant to try new food but will usually give it a go with a gentle encouragement, DSD would absolutely not budge and on the rare occasion she did, would react as if you had fed her dog shit!
I also avoid making finishing meals the requirement to have a pudding, it encourages over eating and makes the pud part of the meal too much of a big deal.

I think new food happens in stages - the first time you produce it - it gets a bit of a prod and generally examined - I think don't worry - its a start - the next time it is produced it gets examined a bit more closely and maybe even tasted - its little by little - then after a while it generally gets the thumbs up and woolfed down -

Let her eat the food she will eat but limit to mealtimes. If she leaves the table, the food goes and none is offered until the next meal. If she'll eat, say, pizza, make you're own and make your own tomato sauce to go on it and add extra veggies to it (the sauce I mean).
It sounds like the food she's eating at nursery is fine. Sure, fruit is sweet, but as long as you keep on top of tooth brushing, she's eating healthy stuff.
Don't let it become a battleground. I think a lot of childhood food issues come from the child sensing how important it is to the parent, and dig their heals in even more. If she's hungry she'll eat (unless she has underlying issues), so provide her with food, then sit back and don't pay too much attention to what she's eating (or not, as the case may be!)
Don't keep any sweets or treats beyond maybe some homemade
cakes or flapjacks (which can have healthy things sneaked in). A child
her age does not need sweets.
When she's used to regular mealtimes, then try occasionally adding something new, but don't acknowledge if it's eaten or not, it really doesn't matter, but she'll be getting used to seeing new stuff and maybe feeling it and playing with it.
Can you tell I had a food refuser?
The above was advice from my HV at the time. It really helped me to calm down and relax about Ds's eating, which in turn made it less stressful for him, and as Aitch says, a vitamin is a vitamin wherever it comes from. She eats fruit, drinks milk - it's not all bad :)
Ds is now 9 and will try anything - he doesn't always like it, but he tries, which is something I never thought I'd see 5 years ago :)