Does he need to be weaned?

[celandine]

He's 17 weeks, 93rd centile and weighs 18lb.

His bottlefeeding (on hungry baby formula) is currently:

7.30am - 8oz
11am - 9/10 oz
2.30pm - 7oz (lately often cries for more but if I give it he eats less at 6.30 and I don't want this)
6.30pm - 8oz
10.30pm - 5oz
5am 'ish' - 1oz diluted in 4oz water.

= average total of 38 - 40oz a day. A couple of days ago he wouldn't stop crying at his 2.30 feed until I'd fed him 12oz!! He goes 3 1/2 hours without a feed but it's difficult to get him beyond that.

I'd rather not wean him if it's not necessary but I'm getting the feeling that milk isn't filling his belly, plus he's getting very roly-poly.

Any advice very welcome

Oh, and he usually wakes at least once at night, though this is sporadic, sometimes 1am, 2.30, 4.00, 5.00 etc.

He's only ever slept through from 11 - 7 about 5 times so I can't tell if he's waking up more because of hunger or not.

Wow, what a lot!

I normally go by the advice to wait as long as possible but I have a feeling that if he was mine I would be thinking stuff that and try weaning.

Its really up to you and what you feel he needs.

celandine, sounds very similar to my DS. He is 15 weeks on Friday and is 17.10. He has been sleeping through the night for ages and then last week we had a waking period. Did try him with baby rice but he did not respond. I have left it and will try again in a couple of weeks and just see how he reacts. You could always try and see what happens.

Celandine - I would avoid solids at the moment and would not give him diluted feeds either. If he is up for a feed at 5am he would be bettr having a proper feed. That may make a difference to the amounts he is taking during the day. He really is better off having milk and by the looks of things he isn't taking as much as he could from 10.30pm.

Mears - thanks for advice. I really don't know if he needs feeding during the night because he often has nights when he wakes 2 or 3 times and I can settle him back with a dummy. If he just has the one waking at 4/5am and doesn't settle with 'sh-shing' or a dummy then I feed him. He gets through to 7 ok with just the diluted 1oz so d'you reckon it's ok to continue with that, particularly as he's made it through many nights without any food at all? I really want to avoid the implications of a bigger night feed i.e. less at 7 equals earlier 11am feed equals probably not sleeping well at lunchtime etc...

Also, he probably would take more at 10.30pm but we've always limited it to 5oz (Gina style). In fact, last night for the first time we tried him with more and he had 7oz so I hoped he might make it thru but then had 3 wakings in the night at 1, 3 and 4. I didn't feed him again until morning though.

I personally wouldn't dilute his feeds, especially since he is fed exclusivley on milk. I also wouldn't limit his milk intake at bedtime, again because you are doing so well by not having him started on solids already.He may be going through a growth spurt and needing extra milk. I don't understand Gina's philosophy but feel that babies have times that they need extra milk. If he is being limited at bedtime and during the night, he is going to look for extra big feeds during the day. Better to give him milk when he needs it that start solids IMO.

I personally wouldn't dilute his feeds, especially since he is fed exclusivley on milk. I also wouldn't limit his milk intake at bedtime, again because you are doing so well by not having him started on solids already.He may be going through a growth spurt and needing extra milk. I don't understand Gina's philosophy but feel that babies have times that they need extra milk. If he is being limited at bedtime and during the night, he is going to look for extra big feeds during the day. Better to give him milk when he needs it that start solids IMO.

celandine mine is 10 weeks and only 13.5 lbs, but he has 5 8oz feeds a day at 7, 10, 1, 4 and 5.15, plus usually another 4 oz or so at 6pm. Then he sleeps through. He's been drinking this much for a couple of weeks now and is pretty contented on it. So I don't think that yours is eating particularly a massive amount, considering. And I wouldn't try and limit his feeds eg at 2,30 and 10.30, I'd just give him as much as he wants and as much as possible during the day and hope that fills him up a bit more for night. And I wouldn't dilute either - whats the point?

I'd read that diluting meant that he'd increase his daytime feeds to compensate and hence eventually give up waking at night. It hasn't been working though cos he still wakes.

I'll just give him as much as he wants at feedtimes for a bit and just stick with the milk for as long as possible.

I guess he's not drinking an extortionate amount but I reckon soon he'll be on 9oz bottles and beyond that...well... it won't fit will it! How I wish I'd been able to stick with breastfeeding. At least then I'd not be so hung up on ounces.

Mears - I also think you may be right about the growth spurt thing. He's acting similar to how he did at his 3 month spurt i.e. frequent nightwakings for no reason and he chats to himself in his cot, much more vocal during the day, desire for huge bottles etc...

By the time my ds1 was ready for weaning he was on 8 x 8oz bottles a day!
And that was between 7am and 8-9pm, he was sleeping through then too! So I wouldn't worry too much yet.

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I actually tried him with babyrice for about 5 days when he was 15 weeks and he loved it. No tongue reflex or anything. However, I got concerned that I was maybe doing it too early and as he wasn't having tons of milk so I stopped.

Hi Celandine I think there is a big difference of opinion on the whole weaning thing. My ds was similar to yours - a very hungry boy who I always seemed to be playing catch up with in terms of his appetite. I weaned him at about 15 weeks and think this was absolutely the right thing to do. You could almost see the relief on his face and he was much happier for it. I don't really understand why early weaning is frowned on so much. You know your baby - go with your instinct.

I keep changing my mind about it. One day he has loads of milk and wakes lots in the night and I think 'that's it, he's being weaned!'. Then another day he'll eat much less so I think 'oh, maybe he doesn't need it yet'. I'm sure he's physically ready for it for it but I'm worried about doing him a disfavour by doing it before he really needs it.

Totally willing to be corrected on this by those in the know, but my understanding of early weaning is that it can cause problems internally.

Plenty of babies will eat what they're given - they'd probably eat chocolate and chips all day from 10 weeks if they could. However their stomachs are not yet fully developed and they do not have a complete set of digestive enzymes to be able to digest solid food adequately until around 6 months. Similarly kidneys can't cope with the wrong sort of food too early on.

We don't nutritionally "need" anything other than milk for the first 6 months. Just because a baby will physically take baby rice or whatever, doesn't mean that their little body is ready to cope with it.

I would increase the milk offered, especially at 10pm. my understanding of GF's theory is that you give the baby all the milk they should need between 7am and 11pm. You don't reduce the 10pm feed until the baby has slept through until 7am for at least a week otherwise they're quite obviously still hungry and should be getting more milk. If he's still waking in the night I think it's because he hasn't had enough at 10pm. By 5am, I would think he was probably genuinely hungry. You'll know if he starts taking less at 7am whether it was habit or hunger.

GF also says that a baby is showing signs (NB not necessarily needing weaned) when they drain an 8oz bottle at every feed and as soon as it's finished demand more immediately.

Phew...whatever you decide, hope it all goes well for you

celandine, my ds was breastfed, so I don't know how many ounces he was drinking, but he stuffed his face every 3 hours on the dot between 7 am and 10pm, (6 times per day) I had loads of milk and I had the impression he was drinking tons of the stuff. I could never get him to go longer because he was hungry. i think you should just give him as much milk as he wants at each feed and forget trying to fit him to Ginas pattern etc. (I'm not anti Gina, found her very helpful on some things, but over quite a few milk related things, I came to the conclusion you can't make a baby fit a rule book!) Ignore the ounces on the bottle and trust you instincts, if he is hungry, give him milk.
I'm sure we didn't suffer form early weaning, but I wish I'd held out for the whole 6 months with mine, as the evidence does seem to be that the later the better. Hope that helps

Thanks so much for advice. After considering everything my instincts tell me to wait. So it's milk, milk for the foreseeable future

This link might help regarding the reason for not weaning early celandine here

Just to let you know that after umming and ahhing I've now started my ds on solids. He's nearly 20 weeks, is 98th centile weight, off the scale for height and often not satisfied after 9oz bottles. I reckon he's done incredibly well not to need solids until now but I really do feel that now it's appropriate for him. He polished off a 9oz bottle and then 3 bowls of babyrice at 11am and was smiling joyfully at the rice so I know he's ready for it.

Thanks for all the advice; I did hold him out for a couple of weeks longer thanks to it. How just expect lots of questions on what to feed him with :0

Ooh - PLUS - After giving him some babyrice last night at 6.30pm he slept through from 10pm - 7.30 last night with no wakings/whimperings/chatterings at all - for the first time ever!!! Does this really have to do with food or is it just coincidence I wonder...
Either way,. I don't think there's any going back now