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Milk

46 replies

Linny · 18/10/2001 14:57

My daughter will be 3 in January and is drinking less and less milk. She has milk on her cereal but rarely drinks much otherwise. She regularly asks for milk when going to bed but doesnt usually drink it. I even resorted to buying flavoured milk but she soon lost interest. She does drink plenty of fluid but not enough milk. She does eat fromage frais and likes cheese but I worry that she isnt getting enough calcium. Any good ideas?

OP posts:
Pupuce · 18/10/2001 16:42

A lot of nutrionists actually do not believe milk is that good for us... I drink tons of it but I have been told by 3 different ones that I should reduce it !!
There is an interesting article on this topic in a book called "What should I feed my baby" by Susannah Olivier - p66/67 here is an extract
... With the huge increase in childhood ailments, including asthma, eczema, glue ear, and alarmingly childhood diabetes, more and more paediatricians are advsing that milk and dairy products in general should be eliminated from children's diets.... I am firmly of the belief that dairy products are not needed for the human child....."

Here is a list of foods that contain high level of calcium (again from her book):
Canned sardines (1 small can) 400mg
Enriched flour 100g = 2000mg
Canned pink slamon (1 small can) 150 mg
Tofu
Spinach 100g = 75mg
Broccoli 75g = 75mg
Almonds 25g = 50mg
Soya beans 75g = 75 mg
Orange 1 = 50mg
Kidney beans 75g =50mg
Blackberries
Leeks
Cabbage
Carrots
Dates and raisins
Eggs
.. the list goes on !
Your recommended daily calcium intake should be 350-400mg

Debster · 18/10/2001 19:32

Linny, you could almost be describing my son! He is also 3 in January and hasn't drunk milk by itself for over a year and a half. Like your daughter he has ready brek with about 8oz of milk for breakfast and that's it other than fromage frais, cheese etc. He drinks loads of juice though. See what I mean about the similarities. The only difference is that he never requests it at bedtime.

Pupuce - you have certainly put my mind at rest. As my son loves things like oranges, broccoli, blackberries and eggs I don't feel so worried about the lack of milk in his diet.

Pupuce · 18/10/2001 20:16

I should add that my son is only having goat dairy (milk and yogourt) and I read somewhere that it has very little calcium (and he only has a little bit of it anyway) so I too was concerned about the calcium intake... hence my bit of research. The book goes on to say that children who have a well balanced diet with lots of fruits and veg can have a completely dairy free diet and still have enough calcium intake.

Kmg · 19/10/2001 02:09

Pupuce - thanks for this, it's very helpful to me too. We've just taken youngest son off dairy again for the second time. He was on soya milk from 9 - c.18 months, but seemed to be coping OK when we reintroduced it. But when he got another virus (9 months on), he was coughing for 8 weeks, and being sick several times a day. My singing teacher recommends a non-dairy diet too. Maybe we should all try it ... I'm sure dh wouldn't agree though!

Eulalia · 19/10/2001 15:43

I believe milk (or other dairy substitutes) should only be a major component of a child's diet till 12 months, thereafter some dairy/calcium till around age 5 is important. As Pupuce points out milk is generally prescribed because it is such a good source of calcium but there are plenty other means of gaining this.

Other than a few bottles of formula in his early weeks my son has never drunk milk. I exclusively breastfed till around 5 months and since then have given him yoghurt and cheese although he doesn't eat a great deal of these even (he is now 27 months). I tried some milk when he turned two but his excema flared up so I stopped. I am still breastfeeding which may help but otherwise I think a balanced diet is important. If your daughter is healthy and is gaining weight and growing properly then she should be fine.

In some parts of the world milk is never drunk and their babies grow up perfectly healthy (maybe even more so from the point of view of ear infections etc)

Lisa99 · 21/10/2001 02:06

Hi everyone. My daughter has just turned 12 months and is dairy intolerant. She has never taken a bottle and only sips small amounts of soy formula during the day. I have been trying to wean her for over 3 months and it has been causing me a lot of stress because I can't get her to replace the breast feeds with bottles. I am pregnant again so I really do want to wean her so my next baby gets the start it needs. However, I can't help worrying that my daughter won't get all the nutrients she needs to grow big and strong. Thanks for helping me feel less guilty about "depriving" my daughter of her breastfeeds. I'm going to start dropping the next one tomorrow!

Eulalia · 21/10/2001 15:24

Lisa - I have some info on breastfeeding whilst pregnant if you'd like it. Firstly don't worry about depriving your foetus although I guess your health visitor has already told you this. After the birth you can if you wish carry on breastfeeding both children. Your new baby will not be deprived of any nutrients as your body will adapt to cope (think of twins who take a lot more milk than a baby and a toddler) so quantity is not a problem. As far as the nutrients are concerned your body will favour the newborn and will still produce colostrum and all the nutrients the baby needs despite your toddler having some too.

As for the moment if you are worried about your older child and she is refusing formula then it is better that she has breast milk than nothing at all. Mainly of course because it has all the nutrients she needs and immunological protection too. Current advice is to breastfeed for a year anyway.

If you feel that two children at once is too much you may find that your milk will naturally dry up later in your pregnancy and your daughter will lose interest. However if she is only having a few feeds a day then this is fine and it will reduce in time. Some toddlers are happy with a bedtime breastfeed, particularly as it can help to settle them.

Also I'd guess that she is getting a bit old for bottles anyway - have you tried milk in a cup or as listed below other forms of calcium? You can move onto straight cows milk after a year anyway.

Don't stress about it though - I am in the same boat - my son is 27 months and I am 4 months pregnant and I can't see me weaning in the near future!

Eulalia · 21/10/2001 15:27

Sorry Lisa I just noticed you said your daughter is dairy intolerant - even more reason perhaps to carry on the b/feeding for just now and perhaps try the foods listed below particularly bony fish. Good luck.

Chanelno5 · 21/10/2001 19:11

If you are worried about your child's calcium (and/or other vits & minerals) intake and they are over 3 yrs, why not try children's vitamins. I give them to mine and they take them quite happily. Sanatogen make Kids Gold A-Z and they are free from artificial colours, sugar, gluten and lactose. I was more worried about mine being iron deficient, but I think we all probably worry too much about what they do and don't eat - look at the case of that boy who survived on just jam sandwiches for years and years!

Robinw · 22/10/2001 06:19

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Pupuce · 22/10/2001 12:20

Robinw... I had read the opposite (on goat's milk) in a French magazine on nutrition.
However I know a lot of professional (in the medical) profession who do think you can get away without any dairy. As Eulalia correctly points out, there are several countries/regions around the world where people/children do not drink milk and they are perfectly fine.
I also remember reading ... but don't quote me because I am speaking from memory.... that the calcium in milk is actually not all that well absorbed by the body - I can't remember the details unfortunately.

Harrysmum · 22/10/2001 12:51

You may be able to help - I have a dairy intolerance and it was thought that Harry did as well although now that he has had 6 months on a soya only diet (up to 1 year old) we have been encouraged to try him on a mixed dairy/soya regime to see if he will be able to drink cows milk and so far so good. However, since July (so predating the move to mixed a little) he has been plagued by perforated ear drums with a huge volume of pus running out each time it happens. The GP is despairing as he is either infected or on antibiotics and on the waiting list to be seen by ENT (in fact, he was due to be seen finally in 2 weeks but we have just been told that this has been postponed to end Decemeber). Is there a link between glue ear and milk???

PS Goats milk was not recommended by the dietician and we were told to make sure that we used calcium enrcihed soya

Robinw · 22/10/2001 13:32

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Robinw · 22/10/2001 13:33

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Robinw · 22/10/2001 13:39

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Harrysmum · 22/10/2001 15:32

Robinw, thanks for those postings. They are really helpfulesp the calcium powder, for me if noone else as I've been concerned about my own calcium levels post-natally as I don't take milk in any form. I may have been wrong on ds' diagnosis - I think that he is too young for glue ear (he was 9 months when it started and he is now just over a year) and that it is a serious/chronic middle ear infection. However, there is the concern that it is being exacerbated and prolonged by the dairy/soya intake. I think that he's too wee for chewing gum but will look into the nasal spray option - it can only come more quickly than the consultant appointment!

Eulalia · 22/10/2001 17:34

It is thought that too much milk is related to many childhood ailments, glue ear, asthma, stomach upsets etc. Breastfed babies show a much lower incidence of these ailments almost certainly because their gut is developed by the time dairy is introduced usually in the form of solids. Solids that are introduced too early regardless of what they are can lead to allergies of that food. Therefore because cow's milk is strictly speaking unnatural food to us (before 4-6 months) it is hardly surprising that some of us will have problems with it later on.

As Robinw points out magnesium helps to absorb calcium. Brazil nuts are a good source - powdering them seems like a good idea.

Robinw · 23/10/2001 05:20

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Chanelno5 · 23/10/2001 07:52

RobinW - what brilliant advice! My son has glue ear which doesn't seem to be improving and I was coming round to thinking that grommets would be inevitable. However, I will try to get hold of some xylitol sweets as would prefer to go the non-surgical route if at all possible. What a shame more GPs/HVs don't know about this.

Eulalia · 23/10/2001 18:16

Here's an excerpt from an interesting article:

Cow's Milk is the "Perfect Food" for Baby Calves
But Many Doctors Agree it is Not Healthy for Humans
by Michael Dye

The mucus created by dairy products causes other problems as well. It is well-known that dairy products cause excessive mucus in the lungs, sinuses and intestines. Dr. Ellis notes this excess mucus in the breathing passages contributes to many respiratory problems and that mucus hardens to form a coating on the inner wall of the intestines that leads to poor absorption of nutrients, which can cause chronic fatigue. This mucus also causes constipation, which can lead to many other problems. Two very common problems with infants are colic and ear infections, both of which can be caused by cow's milk. Medical studies have found cow's milk can contribute to these problems either directly, when the infant drinks cow's milk, or indirectly, when the infant breast feeds from a mother who has been consuming dairy products. Colic, suffered by one out of every five infants in the U.S., is characterized by severe stomach cramps. The July/August 1994 issue of Natural Health reports, "When a mother eats dairy products, milk proteins pass into her breast milk and end up in the baby's blood; some studies have found that cow's milk proteins (from milk drunk by the mother) might trigger colick-like symptoms in infants fed only human milk and no cow's milk." Concerning ear infections, Dr. Northrup states, "You just don't see this painful condition among infants and children who aren't getting cow's milk into their systems." The Natural Health article also notes, "Removing dairy from the diet has been shown to shrink enlarged tonsils and adenoids, indicating relief for the immune system. Similarly, doctors experimenting with dairy-free diets often report a marked reduction in colds, flus, sinusitis and ear infections."

For full text go to: members.tripod.com/~josquin/milk.htm

Other articles can be found at 'The No Milk Page at www.panix.com/~nomilk/

Pupuce · 23/10/2001 18:27

My son who is on a 90% dairy free diet (I say that 90% because he has cheese sauce or flan sometimes at nursery but he eats there only twice a week) has only (touch wood) had runny noses (3 or 4 times)... that's IT and he is 23 months old. He did have severe excema at 3 months old and he was 100% breastfed but I love milk so I was drinking a lot of it. It was suggested to me by my homeopath to seriously cut down on my dairy intake to see if that would make a difference and it did immediately. When he started having a bottle a day - 7 months old - (had to go back to work so he got a bottle at lunchtime) it was goat's milk and he is now only driniking goat's milk and eating goat's yogourt...
I am very happy that he is so healthy and my homeopath puts partly down to the fact that he doesn't drink dairy. He has a very varied diet (all organic) and luckily for us he will eat anything !

Robinw · 23/10/2001 20:12

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Pupuce · 23/10/2001 21:10

I only know of Tahini on toast... excellent source of calcium.

Bells2 · 24/10/2001 06:32

I have only ever used tahini in hummus although know it can also be used as a salad dressing ingredient. Just add a generous tablespoon per can of chick peas (+ garlic, lemon juice, olive oil and parsley).

Lisa99 · 24/10/2001 07:41

HI everyone
just thought I'd let you know I'd had some success in weaning my one year old daughter Tamsin over the past two days. I tried her on normal soy milk rather than soy infant formula now she is one and she seemed to love it! Not surprising as it tastes heaps better than the soy formula she was on. The first day she drank 100ml in one go and today she drank 180ml in one go. Amazing. I'm going to hang on to one breastfeed a day for a few weeks more though as she is in baby heaven when she is snuggled up to my boob.
ps. soy yoghurt tastes pretty bad but soy icecream tastes pretty good!