Milk Allergies

[MammyShirl]

Found out my daughter was allergic to cows milk when she was about 5 months as I was trying to wean her off my breast and tried various formulas, she cam out in a bda rash an dthe doctor said she was allergic and sent me on my way with soya milk which I could not get near her mouth so I was then given Nutramigen which tastes even worse but she has drank a bit. She is 7 months the 23rd of this month and is still being breast fed, I am weaning her onto expressed milk bottles slowly before I introduce the Nutramigen. But to be honest I feel so sorry for her having to drink that stuff, it does not taste natural. I was wondering if anyone else's child got over their allergy to cows milk and if it is worth my while trying her with some cows milk to see if she is still allergic or should I wait longer then a 2 month gap?
Thank you

My DD (now 5 ) was violently allergic to cows milk, my DS (now 3.5) was not vomiting all over the place but suffered from constant runny nose, dribbling and glue ear classic allergy reaction. With DD I persisted with breastfeeding until she was 1.5. With DS I'm so guilty to say, I dried up completely very early on still makes me so sad.

I put DS on nanny milk (goats milk formula) but homeopatch I was seeing re glue ear said to give it up. We did and from allergy point have never looked back. Both DD and DS have no dairy at all. I give them calcium supplements and make sure they ear lots of stalky vegetables such as broccoli, cauli etc. Apparently (according to nutritionalist) the hard stalky veg is high in calcium as the veg needs calcium to stand up IYKWIM . Baked beans and white bread are also good for calcium.

Both DD and DS are on 91st percentile for height and I don't think they would be if they had a serious calcium deficiency.

The bloke who runs our local health food shop is funny. Famous quotes are 'Carl Lewis the runner is a vegan and no ones worried about his bones' and 'whales have the biggest bone masses of all mammals - where do you think they get dairy products from' (apparently they don't suckle their young for long) and 'the Japanese don't eat dairy but they've got the lowest incidence of osteoporosis in the world'.

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I had to put my baby on Nutramigen also when she was about a month old. (I never breastfed) It is really a "pre-digested" formula which makes it so much easier on their digestion, but I do think it is cow milk based. Her bowel movements changed dramatically. Rice Milk is very delicious, it comes in shelf cartons and in the dairy case here as well. There is a vanilla one that is really tasty as a supplement to your own breast milk. It couldn't hurt right? See if she likes it. It is sold here as RiceDream by a company called Imagine, they also make non-dairy puddings sweetened with rice syrup which are great when they get older. If you gave the rice milk to her toward evening and it is easy on her digestion, she is sure to sleep much better (without indigestion). I do believe that alot of children grow out of the allergy. Even if they do grow out of it, I can't see that it wouldn't make their immune system work harder as opposed to giving them foods and milks that make their system stronger. Muscle testing also works well to see what really agrees with the baby, have you tried this? You hold the baby and they test you--it is pretty interesting! There are so many great sources of calcium I would not worry about a deficiency, but I worried about everything so I can identify with you on that! My babe suffered with ear infections and indigestion until I made the changes. Good luck with all of this Mammyshirl.

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Robinw, yes I agree and have heard that also. They have an Enriched Vanilla Rice Dream which is the one I usedIt is enriched with Vitamins A, B12 and D, states calcium equal to milk. I mentioned in my earlier post that Mammy could combine it with feedings of breastmilk. I also had my DD on soy for a while and she did not develop a peanut allergy. Every baby is so different, it is so hard to know the right thing to do. I suggested the rice milk as an alternative to soy if her DD didn't like it because of the taste. Mammyjust trying to help and give you the benefit of my personal experience! Robinw seems to be well-informed, so please use my advice with caution!

Sunchowder - can I ask you about your experience of muscle testing? I've just had it done with my DS (4)and have come up with strong reactions to E numbers, chocolate and eggs, I'm fairly convinced that it works becuse I could really feel the muscle weakness for those things, but would just like another opinion.

Sorry to hi-jack the thread in another direction MammyShirl promise it's just for a quickie.

WedgiesMum,I found that it is dead on and you can really trust it. I don't know how or why it works, but I believe in it. I also put a lot of faith into cranial osteoI have seen and read incredible results and have had great personal experiences with it myself. I muscle test to check on many thingsI won't buy oils, nuts or vitamins without muscle testing them on myself before I purchase them. I also test my leftovers in the fridge before I will serve them up again to my family. I so believe in it that I have learned to muscle test myselfit is very subtle and no one would notice or you would look like a dip in the supermarket! If you want to read about it in detail, the book that I have and recommend is: BK Behavioral Kinesiology, The New Science for Positive Health Through Muscle Testing, by John Diamond, MD. It is an old book (because I am so old!) I don't believe you are hi-jacking the threadmuscle testing might be a great thing for Mammy to try with her baby to see which formula gives her the strongest muscle testthen she can be sure what will agree with her baby and give her more confidence. I believe in so many strange things though, that sometimes it causes a quite a stir when it is compared to "conventional" therapies, so before I upset anyoneplease take this all with a grain of salt if you think this lot of information is crap. I would rather continue to keep the positive flow of information going out to others then to take apart Behaviroral Kinesiology or Canial Osteo Therapy. I only mean well when I post.

Thanks Sunchowder for this. I want to do what is right for DS and have no experience of others who have done it.

Because of what the testing said DS can't have any of his usual sweets or chocolate and I don't want to feel like I'm being mean by not letting him have them. On the bright side he appears to like carob so we're testing that next time. We've also tested a multivitamin suppliment and acidophilus together and they seem to be really strong towards sorting him out, so hopefully with that and excluding stuff we can get him feeling like a new boy!

MS, dd1, ds1 and ds2 have all had this allergy and all have outgrown it. Ds2 was the worst, with allergies to dairy, soya, wheat and disposable nappies (!) , but he is ok now on everything but the nappies, more or less, at aged 2 1/2. He was 2 before we could even begin to try giving him them again though. You mention a doctor, but do you have a dietician? It would be helpful to you and dd I think. Good luck.

Ah Wedgies Mum, good for you! I had my DD on a probiotic treatment for six months (after a horrible bout with ear infections and antibiotics) and it really helped her digestion and built up her immune system again (that is a combo of acidophilus (upper intestion bacteria) and bifidus (lower intestine bacteria). This it is a bit more concentrated that what you can get in a yogurt. If your DD has been on and off of antibiotics, he may have what the naturalpath (osteo?) call "leaky gut syndrome". This happens when too much of the natural bacterias are not present to break down the foods in the intestines. The antibiotics kill off both the good and bad bacterias when they fight the infection. The way this was described to me is that the nutrients are absorbed into the bloodstream thru the intestinal wall, the molecules are too large (as not broken down properly) and the body will attack them in an allergic type reaction. When the baterial is restored, the allergic reations will cease. Pretty amazing stuff! This is what can cause the runny nose immeidately after eating something, etc.they don't have to be catching colds every three weeks in order to be having these allergic reactions. My DD would pick up any bug that was going around the classroomit was so hard!

Apparently our bodies naturally restore the intestinal bacteria and it is growing all the time. I don't know about you, I get a yeast infection whenever I take antibiotics, so I know that they effect me in this way--but I guess as adults we are stronger than the babes so that our immune systems don't suffer as much as the young ones.

Carob is delicious and I am sure he will enjoy it as long as he tests OK with it. I would bring a bag of things with me to have muscle tested (especially treats). I don't know if we feel worse about not being able to give them their favorites or if they do, it is so hard to have a "diet" to stick to when they are this young. If you have the Imagine Puddings over there, bring a few of those to test with, they contain rice milk, and are sweetened with rice syrup. I believe they have banana and butterscotch (besides choc). All of us humans muscle test weak for sugar, did you try bittersweet choc (do you call that Bourneville?) might be worth a try, it has less sugar and milk. Then he at least could have a dark chocolate once in a while if everyone else is having some. We have tofutti "ice cream" sandwiches here which are made from tofu ice cream. That is a great treat--I don't know if that is available, but of course it is soy-based which might be good for him also. As soon as you know what he can have, use google to search for where those products are available and treat yourself to a web order of stuff every other month. So much fun to receive a package too! It will make him feel special. Good luck, contact me via Mumsnet if you want more info!

Lou33, WOW! I had to take my DD of dairy, wheat and sugar and nuts and then bring her slowly back on. She too can eat them all now at 9 years oldbut I still try to limit her dairy as we have so many other things available here to enjoy as well. I guess the RICE was the way to go for you then! Rice agrees with so many babies thank goodness or we would all go mad! You won't believe how many babies are allergic to the crystals that wick away the wetness in the disposableslots, some of them don't react as strongly, so the Mums don't realize.

my ds ,now 5,has had allergies to dairy,wheat and soya since weaning.we were refered(at my insistance)to a paediatric clinic at our local hospital.here we have access to a dietician,a paediatrician,they are fantastic offer lots of help and advice as well as monitering ds weight,height etc.i would reccommend you ask your gp to refer you to one too,they can help you introduce foodstuffs back into diets safely etc.he is less allergic now to soya and wheat,but still has very little in his diet but the dairy is still a no go.

my dd was violently sick from birth till it was decided to try her on soy infant formula at 6 months ,the sickness stopped almost over night,she has been reffered though my h.v to a dietician who will help me i think with reintroducing dairy produce,it is not advisable to give babies rice milk as it does not contain the correct nutrition for them,i get dairy free yoghurt,butter and cheese from our local health food store and she is very content on them,i suppose as she doesnt know what the dairy version tastes like.

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my dd is dairy and lactose intolerant and has been since weaning her(she's now 3 ) she enjoys a varied diet within the restrictions and has the dairy free alternatives...she is definetly not small for her age.
just a word of warning the hib booster vaccine given recently in the uk actually contains lactose....made my dd very poorly for 36 hours

Don't mean to sound negative, but I was a dairy allergic baby 32 years ago and still am dairy allergic. You should be aware that though the allergy does get less violent it rarely goes away.. I have also found that my allergies have transferred to other foodstuffs over my life time and it is only when I completely avoid any dairy that I am 100% well. I even went through a phase of having a violent reaction to wine - pretty disastrous. I have a 4 1/2 month old who I am resisting weaning cos I am so scared of what will happen when I do and doctor is v unhelpful just saying i need to just try and see. Living without dairy is much easier these days as is more accepted as real condition. most jars are now clearly marked -thank goodness after years of ruining eyesight trying to spot the milk protein etc hidden in the list of ingredients. I think the hardest bit is the formula stage - my mum ended up giving me ribena in desperation!!!!!!!!! It is also true as they get older that milk is by no means only source of calcium. and another thing - apparently approximately 40% of UK population is lactose intolerant or dairy allergic and this has been linked with the high incidence of osteo arthritis here. Most are undiagnosed and so at least if you know about allergy can make sure you are giving baby best start for her. Dairy allergy can also cause of eczema, and asthma. Remember there are many countries where dairy is not part of normal diet - eg china! Is only that our society is so hung up about cows milk. SOrry if this is turning into a rant but having lived with this for 32 years have got quite passionate about it!!!!!

RobinW: I don't even know if MammyShirl has come back to read any of the advice as she has not bothered to acknowledge the thread or any of the comments. Let me say as I have said three or four times already--I WOULD NEVER INTENTIONALLY GIVE ANYONE ADVICE THAT WOULD CAUSE HARM TO THEIR CHILD. I mentioned Rice Milk as a supplement to her breast milk- NOT to replace her breast milk. If you read my thread that is what it said. I neglected to include that they now have an enriched version out on the market that has even more added vitamins. I added this to a later thread. It did not occur to me to mention in the same post that there was a famous case of a baby that died of malnutrition from rice milk.

I only mentioned that I had heard about "that" baby that had died from malnutrition (meaning that I understood that rice milk should not replace breast milk on its own without other forms of nutrition) as a reply to your one line post. I was trying to be polite and acknowledge your concern by even bothering to reply that I had "heard that".

You mentioned that I "irritated" you with something else I said on another thread? I don't pretend to be an expert at anything, RobinW. We all come from our own experiences. I have had my experiences as you have had yours. I posted based on my experience.

I have no idea what button I pushed in you for you to mention that I irritated you. I am fairly new to Mumsnet, but I understood this was an open forum. What would please you at this point Robinw? Have you made your point about Rice Milk and malnutrition? Do you have any comments about the muscle testing? Any comments for Blumberg about her candor that allergies probably don't go away (in her experience?) I agree with Blumberg, unless an allergy is caused from leaky gut syndrome, I am not quite sure I believe they go away. But everyone has their own experience with this. Dairy products (Cow milk products) do not strengthen my daughter's immune system, can she tolerate them now at age 9? Yes she can. She won't get a stomache ache, but she is more vulnerable to getting colds or picking up a bug at school. My preference is to give her foods that strengthen her immune system. It would be totally out of line for me to tell any mother that believes that their children outgrow allergies and have a GP that supports that, that their children don't get over allergies and they are hurting their children in any way.

I would not DREAM of telling another poster that they irritated me when sharing their own experience. Your comment which actually inferred that I would intentionally withhold information that could harm anyone's child "even if it was well-meaning" hurt me very much.

Between the bickering and mud-slinging going on over the sexist comments and Dadslib, this has put me over the top this evening.

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woah!!!

mammyshirl, if you are breastfeeding, then in reality you should be able to follow a dairy free diet which wont affect the quality of your breastmilk, and your lil dd should be happy. if u want to stop breastfeeding then the only thing i can say is to persevere, as with all transistions of moving from breast to bottle, try getting someone else to offer the bottle with u out of the room.
my dd1 could tolerate formula, but if offered her milky desserts, anything with gluten, and plums in it then we would have a projectile vomitig baby. over the last few months i have slowly introduced foods (except plums) which previously disagreed with her (in very small amounts) and she now seems to be ok with most of them. she can now eat toast with no problems which is great, she now had yogurt and fromaise frais with no apparent problems.
hth things get easier for u soon.

OK RobinW, it is not clear to me nor do I remember in any of my posts that I stated that I resented anyone else "daring to post a warning" on anything that I have said. I have no idea why you would even state that as a response to my original post. However, it is absolutely true after all of this, that I will choose to put a damper on my spontaneity in posting to offer any of my personal experience with anything allergy-related. This kind of communication drains my energy and no one needs that!

There are many, many threads out there where lots of folks give advice on many different issues and it doesn't get reduced to posts such as these. I took your post very seriously and I took the time last night to follow-up on another thread in which I mentioned Rice Milk to post the malnutition information for everyone on that thread to see in case that would cause any problems for anyone's children. I also took the time to respond to you last night which I feel might again be misunderstood.

I have no idea what to say that will not continue to inflame the situation. I don't know if you need the last word, I don't know if you need to be acknowledged as the expert or if you need my personal apology or what. You missed the spirit of my response. If Mammyshirl does come back to read this, it will be very clear to her that she should not ween her baby and give them solely rice milk to drink (which I never even advised her to do in the first placeI just suggested this as something that tastes nice and might not cause an allergic reaction)wasn't this your original concern? She will also note that even though her GP recommended Soy Milk, that in your experience this could cause or bring out a peanut allergy which is very good information also. My DD did not develop a peanut allergy, but this does not invalidate your experience or knowledge and it should not be taken that way.

If you need the apology RobinW, you have my apology and if your post will save the life of someone's baby, than I will be grateful to you and I am not being sarcastic. I hope that you are complete with this, if you need the last word, I will do my best to allow this without a response, this will depend on you. If you can't tell, my preference is to have resolution with you if that is possible. I am attracted to harmony and I never want to inflame, upset or harm anyone--I am not saying we can ever be best friends, but I would like to put this behind us if possible.

Ooer, don't want to get into the middle of any disagreements here. Everyone keep posting! Spontaneity gets me in trouble too sometimes Sunchowder but I realise that RobinW's point is important and it is good that she has made it.
Just wanted to say that there seems to be evidence that soy contains too much oestrogen. Sorry I'm not as well informed as I should be about this and can't give a reference but I do remember it being quite well publisiced a few months ago and all the senior staff at the hospital (UCH) where I had my baby (now 7 mos) knew about it.

MammyShirl, I think if your daughter is seven months and you want to supplement breastfeeding, you should stick with formula, ie something specifically for infants. Actually, reading your message I think that's what you're asking? Whether to try cows' milk formula again? If your daughter will drink the Nutramigen and is fine with it, then I'd stick with it. I know it's disgusting to us adults, but it's good and safe for your daughter. If she won't drink it, then try a challenge: ie, give your daughter a day where you use the cows' milk formula (ie, "normal" formula) and then switch back to breastfeeding and see what happens. If she's fine, then it's fine to use.

Now, there are different types of formulas available. Nutramigen is what is known as an extensively hydrolysed formula -- ie, it's made from cows' millk, but the protein has been chopped up (by enzymes) into such tiny pieces that it usually slips by the immune system. Some children still react to this and need something like Neocate which is built up from the amino acids (ie no cows' milk protein involved). There are also partially hydrolysed formulas (less chopping and bigger pieces of protein). I'm not in the UK and don't know brands, but the examples I've run across are GoodStart/NanHA. The others have cows' milk protein, but those have also been chopped up a bit (so to speak). My son was allergic to milk and while we were coming out of it a friend of mine who is molecular biologist explained to me that formulas don't contain whole cows' milk proteins, but are less allergenic than yoghurt. For example, you are allowed to introduce yoghurt at around 9 months (?), but regular milk should wait until 1 year. The same reason some kids can tolerate cheese and yoghurt but not a cup of milk. Formula (regular formula) is less allergenic than both of those.

Anyway, hope it goes well. I'm certain I've killed any discussion here (a good thing?) but if you have any questions, feel free to post again. Off topic-- Davros, re a while ago, I did a huge amount of research on formulas, especially regarding allergies. Sorry for being so damned insensitive.

Breastfeeding; bottle?
Is there such a difference?
Love is what matters.

JJ: Brilliant Post and thanks for adding and clarification

JJ, I did develop a sensitivity to the "Breast and Bottle Feeding" section which turned into an allergy I seem to remember though that you were someone I agreed with and respected as you gave information/facts not just opinions and prejudices, oooooops hope I'm not starting things up again!

MammyShirl - since your dd is allergic to cow's milk couldn't you keep giving her expressed breast milk till the age of one year. Once she is on solids she will not need cows milk to drink and a dietician will give you alternative milk suggestions. You do not need to stop breastfeding even if you return to work but could cut feds down and just B/F when you are at home. Alternatively, if your dd takes nutramigen then don't worry about the taste. Do not give her cow's milk at this age as a drink.