organic as well as ethical?

[mollysmum82]

I'm trying to think more deeply these days about how I spend my money. I've started to try and buy Fairtrade where I can (bananas, raisins, chocolate, coffee etc) but I wondered what was the most ethical way of purchasing items that aren't available as Fairtrade?

What would you say is the most ethical way of buying fruit, veg and meat? I like the idea of supporting local farmers as opposed to big corporations...but at the same time I want the healthiest food for my family (not as many pesticides, hormones - I guess organic and free range if possible). Is it possible to buy organic from greengrocers/market stalls/butchers...and are these the most ethical of places in terms of paying workers a fair price and animal welfare?

On the flip side are there any big no nos? Are particular supermarkets less ethical than others?

I know I sound really naive, I am. I just want to start being a better person.

Thanks for any tips!

PS generic advice would be brilliant but if there's any specific local advice too I live in Notts. Thanks again

There is no generic advice. It is an extremely complex area.

And as for "being a good person" doesn't that entirely depend on your own values. How can we guess them?

Hi there

You don't sound naive at all to me, being aware of the difference is a massive step IMO.

Not knowing (or needing to either) whereabouts you are, have you checked out if there are farm shops local to you? Many of these sell their own produce, they may not be organic, but have not entered the 'factory food chain'. They will have dirt on them to preserve them, not plastic shrink wrapping, and of course all the profit goes straight back into the farm.

There are veg box delivery schemes also all over the UK, lots of these are 'local' too, but you might be interested in Riverford Organics, they deliver meat, veg and dairy, as well as other food. They use a much local produce as possible, never air freight either.

I think Waitrose is seen as the one of the more 'ethical' supermarkets, they used to try to source as much fresh food within 30 miles of a store (not sure if this still stands though)

It is more expensive to buy everything in this way, but surely that's the whole crux of the argument, no?

Hmm my values. Okay I guess I'm thinking:

1. buy in a way that doesn't exploit people (e.g. child labour, forced labour)

1. buy in a way that pays a fair price

1. buy the products that give the best consideration to animal welfare

Thank you GlynistheGimmer that's really nice of you and great advice! I'll see if there are any farm shops in Notts and check out Riverford.

PS I've just started buying from Ocado too! I had it in my head that it was the most ethical supermarket but I really need to look more deeply into why!

you're welcome, mollysmum

but...beware, not all farm shops sell their own produce (obviously, how else would a pineapple get on the shelf in Lincolnshire )

and Ocado is not quite the same as Waitrose. They are different companies, but Ocado do carry a great deal of the Waitrose branded lines. The 'Ocado' branded meat is not quite as 'ethical' and does not carry the same guarantee.

T'is quite a minefield if you want it to be

The most ethical way to buy meat, dairy and eggs is to not buy it at all, of course :P

If you ever buy any kinds of prepared products, check the eggs are free-range. M&S and the Co-op do this, Morrisons and Sainsburys have some items but not others, and Aldi doesn't have any. Those are the only places I know.

If you buy everything organic and British that can be British, anything which can't as organic and fairtrade or organic and from a rich country then you know you are not exploiting people or the land (unless someone is breaking the law, which you wouldn't be able to work out). I buy Riverford fruit and veg for these reasons :)

I've come across a big problem in my search for other local food: I don't have a car. This is good in some ways but it means I'm reliant on shops I can walk/bus to or that will deliver. If you can get to farm shops, that would be awesome, obviously, though do make sure the produce is from their farm or surrounding farms. Some of these places are just expensive supermarkets in the countryside, with NZ apples and everything. Very dishonest! A combination of google and walking around town in a different direction might find you something cool, though!

If you need grocery-type things, I like Suma. Apart from the fact that loads of their stuff is organic and fairtrade, the setup of the company itself is very fair (as it's a cooperative). If you do a lot of baking I recommend Doves Farm. You can find their stuff in supermarkets sometimes but if you have need/space for a bigger order it's cheaper to go straight to them. If you have any other specific needs I'll tell you anything I know, but I don't want to bore you with (too many) things you aren't interested in! :o

Wow thank you so much ladies! That's so helpful, lots of information there!

Rinabean, I love the look of Suma, thanks so much! I love doves farm products too.

Hopeforthebest - its definitely worth it! Well done for getting to that stage! Can I ask where you found out about the non-chemical washing stuff and clothes made here?

Ah I didn't realise that GlynistheGimmer, thanks for the tip! Will make sure I buy the Waitrose products from them just in case!

Being married to a farmer and have run a meat business myslf there isnt a whole lot of difference between good traditional low stocking farming methods v organic. People are pretty well neive and throw opinions around which are not true. Beef and lamb is pretty much a fantastic product that is grass fed and only through the odd task can make it truely organic. (organic is only as good as the correct log keeping!!!) Pork you'd be looking for true outdoor reared which is mainly around pedigree breeding. Chicken is slightly different as the stocking density and ground keeping is much more sticter. You can get great eggs at farm gate. Chicken also in my opionion is best eaten by breed say label anglais etc.
I have bought meat from Waitrose and I'm not that impressed. You are buying from big farms too.
I would recommend you source local perhaps a box scheme or if a bit further by post. If buying a rare breed then you are helping support that native british breed too (supermarket meat is generlly crossed). A good farmer will strive to achieve the best from his animals as he needs to bet every bit of profit.
There must be plenty of farmers around everyone. There are also plenty of awards which can be viewed on-line.

My thoughts are very similar to rinabean's.

NO animal products, for the sake of animal welfare, the environment and personal health.

I have a Riverford Organic veg box delivered weekly too. I also use Suma (perhaps you could join a Food Group - I think that's what they're called) and Doves Farm (BTW, their rice and chocolate bars are heavenly!).

Like others, I also use vinegar, lemon juice, bicarb of soda etc to clean. Nothing ever tested on animals. It's all very effective stuff! :)

If you are a meat eater, you might find Simon Fairlie's book on meat (here) a useful read to help figure out what is the 'best' ethical answer for you with the options available.

His article Can Britain Feed Itself is also very helpful and worth reading if you're thinking in the widest sense about the ethical implications of your diet. .

thanks for those links Takver

the reviews on amazon are very encouraging, will order that book from the library