How to help children eat healthily?

[OldieMum]

I've been feeding dd (7 months) on home-made baby food, organic jars and juices, but am only too aware of how soon she'll be bombarded with advertising for junk food and additive-laden snacks. How do parents with older children deal with the effects on their children of advertising, or of seeing other children eating junky snacks? Also, what kinds of policy changes do people think could made to help children eat healthily (eg in Sweden advertising aimed at the under 12s is banned)? What would you like to see the government do about children's diets?

Lil apparently coke is an excellent toilet cleaner. Yuck.Anyone know how true that is?
I am a manic label reader aswell, dh goes mad when I take hours shopping.

I recently read "The Food Our Children Eat", which was very interesting. I believe that, in the main part, food packaged for children is scandalous. It is the worst possible food available - ghastly bits of meat and fish, and high in fat, sugar and salt - and the manufacturers certainly do not have the welfare of our children as their priority. Sunny Delight anyone? The insecurities of parents are heavily played upon. I also believe that there should be restricted TV advertising for children, in particular for food not meeting certain guidelines.

I also meant to say that "The Food Our Children Eat" gives suggestions on how to keep children on a decent diet, including scenarios such as parties and school meals. It gets a little carried away, but is definately worth a read.

re: meat - that is one thing I am really careful with - I only buy from local butchers where all meat is either free range or freedom food. I would never ever buy cheap meat from supermarket as I think it's like putting a timebomb inside you. We are really skint and have to watch every £1 but I refuse to skimp on quality meat.

I have also used coca-cola as a toilet cleaner; I believe the high acids etch away all the calcium (hard water) deposits.

I hear what you are saying, Doormat, about subjective ideas of what is "junk" food. What you're really saying is that a lot of "junk" food options can be made healthy, by leaving out the sugar, hydrogenated fats, E-numbers, artificial sweetners and soda pop. Plus, lots of non-hydrogentated fats are a GOOD thing in the diet of under 4's.

Oh dear, my favourite treat as a child was a coca-cola float! Thinking about it, we ate a lot of "junk" as children (my mum was Canadian so we had a lot of transatlantic stuff), waffles with maple syrup for tea, burgers, cookies, pizza etc. However, and this is the big thing I think, it was all homemade, burgers never from a packet, only bought biscuits we had were rich tea etc. And the rest of our food was normal stuff like stew etc. I know my sis and I were fussy eaters but we had rules, we had to try stuff, esp. if we were out on hols and food was different. If we didn't like it after trying it, then fine, no need to eat any more. Eventually, after years of only wanting chips, sis and I got into squid/olives/curry etc etc. So I think variety is key - we get an organic veg box every week for £5 and it's great, ds (2 1/2) loves seeing what's in there, often odd things you don't see in shops, and so will be excited about eating it, even things I dislike, like celeriac. I realise that as he gets older, peer pressure about veg will kick in, but I think if you keep offering a good variety and not give in to only serving baked beans, they will eventually come round to better eating. I also agree with having most things in moderation (ds has had the odd Macdonalds) but don't have junk in the house if you don't want to be pestered. I never buy crisps or sweets, and if ds gets given chocolate it stays in the fridge and is doled out for treats - I just found a chocolate duck in there, left over from Easter! Off to read the scary meat stories now - what am I going to do, I loooove hotdogs.....?

thanks, ladies, it seems as though you have to be more relaxed in party situations, which i think makes sense, with a bit of gentle leading and limits.

www, i agree that nursery food isn't/shouldn't be in the same category as a party. my issue recently has been that every time it is someone's birthday, they have cake in the afternoon, and there have been a run of birthdays recently or so it seems.

in the main, i'm reasonably ok with what they feed him at nursery, plenty of veg, fruit, water, varied dishes etc. sometimes they have a biscuit snack in the afternoon, but it's always something very plain like a digestive or a nice biscuit (although, frankly, i think they could do without this as well, at home we have rice cakes usually) and they never have frosted or chocolate breakfast cereal. although, again they have stuff there that i wouldn't give him at home, such as rice crispies and cornflakes. at home we have bran flakes, weetabix, porridge and that's it!

having said that the occasional sausage or nugget does pass his lips at home...

www, yes, jam sandwiches - why? i don't have any objection to white bread though, as ds's diet overall contains plenty of wholewheat and fibre. french toast made with wholemeal bread is foul!

I could have written www's first post and like yo doormat I make most of my own food - I won't cover what has already been said but I am interested in why some people discount fruit juice? - I offer either water, milk or diluted fresh apple juice to my children ( 1/3 apple juice to 2/3's water) - Am i missing a trick - is fresh fruit juice "unhealthy"? - I know that it contains sugar, but diluted like that it should be OK shouldn'i it????...help.... Also likewise what's wrong with rice Crispies or cornflakes??. We generally only have either weetabix or porridge but we do occasionally have corn flakes.

hi sonnet, rice crispies and cornflakes have a fair amount of sugar added. re juice, i agree that diluted juice given with meals shouldn't be a problem.

I think there's a danger of this thread getting too judgemental.

Yes, very occasionally, my ds will get a packet of crisps while we're out shopping. We go into town once a week - the crisps are not his breakfast - he had 3 bowls of shreddies at 7am, and by 9am he is ravenous again. More often than not he gets salt 'n' shake crisps (without using the salt) as a compromise. Sometimes he has a little bowl of grapes, sometimes a biscuit. For a real treat he'll get a gingerbread man or a packet of quavers.

You are making a HUGE assumption that people you see in the street giving these type of foods to kids in pushchairs that a) they haven't had a breakfast and b) that is the norm.

Also, I think you can spend too much time worrying about food. ds isn't a picky eater at all, will get heathy stuff and unhealthy stuff and on balance he has a healthy diet. Of course fruit juice is healthy in moderation! It's a good source of vitamins and counts towards your 5 fresh fruit/veg a day. Diluting it is sensible, as is encouraging them to drink it out of a cup as it passes through the mouth more quickly and is less likely to cause cavities. ds drinks mainly water, but will have a glass of diluted juice with his tea which he loves.

It's great that so many of you have the time and the inclination to cook so much from scratch. When I have the time, I enjoy it too. But I also want to do other things with my time, so convenience food also plays a part (I try and choose healthier convenience options where appropriate but don't stress the occasional treat) and my blood pressure is a lot lower as a result... Please don't write off those parents who give the occasional packet of crisps as child abusers!

I read a terribly PC book about birthday cakes in nurseries - the recommendation was to have a 'pretend' wooden cake (with the candles) and plenty of fresh fruit to hand round ............mmm .........know what I'd prefer!!

I have no objection to homemade birthday cakes, at least they shouldn't be full of preservatives, e-numbers etc but on a recent thread it was pointed out that not all nurseries allow this due to nut allergies.

Just read GeorginaA's post - you've made a very good point - 'its great if you have the time & inclination to make all your meals from scratch'. Personally, for me, its no big deal - I absolutely love cooking and really enjoy making (and eating!!) homemade meals every day - but not everyone has the time/or enjoys it. My DS spends a lot of time watching videos whilst I concoct delicious homemade meals in the kitchen - so whilst he might have a good diet - he's certainly 'neglected' in other ways!

GeorginaA: I plead guilty to being judgemental. On the other hand, what am I supposed to think when I see teenage mom & sleepy toddler both eating crisps at the bus-stop at 8am?

zebra.

Then again they could have had a really bad night, cat sick on the carpet in the morning, pipes burst, heating broke down and then found the bread had gone moldy...

Okay, so I have a habit of not thinking the worst and giving people the benefit of the doubt where possible...

Sobernow and Zebra I though that coke as a toilet cleaner was true. My dh swears by it for his hangover too.

Sonnet I dont think there is nothing with giving kids fresh fruit juice diluted.I just dont do it as it would cost me a fortune with my tribe of kids.I just have a fruit bowl they can pick from.

I'm definitely of the "balance is the key" school of thought - I'm OK with letting ds have the occasional mini bag of white chocolate buttons and custard cream biscuits from the cupboard, because I'm happy that the rest of his diet is pretty healthy. He has non-sweetened Weetabix or brown toast for breakfast, will happily chomp a banana or apple and will fight me tooth and nail for homemade cauliflower cheese! Luckily he hates anything fizzy at the moment and I will steer him away from Coke for as long as possible.

me too, jodee, hope i haven't given a different impression, that's why i try to take a pragmatic view wrt parties or the odd ice cream, nugget, sausage etc. have to say, working five days a week, i'm from the "cooking from scratch on a week night is just one chore among many" school of thought - but have found ways round it to ensure ds is at least offered (as opposed to "ds eats" - lol!, another thread! ) a healthy range of stuff at home - but it is not "perfect" by any means.

oh, but if he ever has coke in the next few years, it will be because they pried the can out of my cold, dead fingers!

DS1 (6.5) said to me in Tesco the other day "Mum, can we get some Sunny D?" I assumed he had seen it on TV but no, he'd had it at a friend's house. I would never ever buy the stuff, but I explained that while it was OK to have it once in a blue moon at Jimmy's house, I definitely wouldn't be buying any as it's full of sugar and chemicals. Smart a**e child says "no, there's a sugar free version!" But he accepted that I wasn't prepared to buy it and I'm fairly sure he won't mention it again.

Personally, though advertising bugs me (have you seen the Ribena one where they find the little boy's height, aged 4, under the wallpaper - the implication being that you need Ribena to grow big and strong? Aaargh!) I'm not going to be swayed by pester power - and ds1 knows that and won't push it once I've said no.

He doesn't eat sweets (his decision, doesn't like them) and mostly drinks water. The only thing I have given up on is fruit - he will not eat ANY, but as the rest of his diet is pretty healthy and varied (eats most veg) I don't bother too much. Interestingly enough, his school have introduced the free fruit at playtime scheme and Ds1 just does without - so being swayed by his peers' eating habits hasn't worked there

There are very few things I would absolutely deny them (Coke and Sunny D are two I can think of) as I think moderation is the key. We mostly eat a healthy and varied diet - I love cooking, so that helps - but we do go to the dread McD's once in a while!

My personal bugbear (very apparent when we were on holiday in Devon at the start of August, and eating out for lunch a lot) is the abysmal fare served up as the "Childrens' Menu". Sausages, chicken nuggets, burgers and the ubiquitous chips. Both mine could have had that in every place we ate - thank goodness for the few places with imagination that offer things like pasta, roast dinner etc. DS1 asked for the "home-made mushroom soup and crusty bread" in one place we went and the waitress couldn't believe it was for him!

GeorginaA, just a quick one - healthy food doesn't have to mean hours slaving over a hot stove, not at all IMO. For example pasta, beans, crudites, peanut butter/marmite sandwiches, hummus, fruit, toast, cereal are all quick and healthy. I take your point about judgement - anyone seeing ds being allowed a glass of coke outside a pub might assume I let him have it regularly when I don't. Still, I don't actually care what other people think in those situations.

Also, whoever said moaning about advertising is pointless since parents should take responsibility for healthy eating well, yes, up to a point. Of course parents buy food and children don't but advertisers and marketeers know all about pester power and harnessing it - that's why they do it! Advertising works otherwise no-one would spend money on it. Advertising junk food does persuade more people to buy it. And look at these ads: they're mainly aimed at children who very often can't tell the difference between the truth and advertising, the idea being to get them to put pressure on their parents.

ohh this thread is interesting. I have only just skimmed it and don't know what has been said before.

Anyway, I personally think junk food ( if that's what you call ready made pizzas, nuggets, sausages, beefburgers, ice cream, instant custard etc )can be a useful stepping stone in getting a child to each healthy fruit and vegetables.

My 4 year old is not mega fussy but he has never eaten much of the green stuff by itself. Even turned his nose up at mashed potato. There are a some healthy staples that he likes, cauli cheese, leeks in cheese sauce, the odd chopped up apple, but he can't live on this all the time. Many of his typical suppers contain some 'bad' food to make the 'good' food go down more easily. Say a sliced up sausage with broccoli in pasta, a pizza topped with extra tomatoes, a banana with ice cream, nuggets chopped up with sweetcorn etc.

It's not unusual for me to say, no you can't have more milk (healthy) until you have eaten some of your pancake with banana (healthy) and choclate sauce (bad but tempting). That's because my son will drink mug after mug of milk until he has no appetite. Left to his own devices, he would live on milk and bread and butter. And he has a brother who will eat his meat and two beg, so he isn't copying anyone else.

I don't like food advertising aimed at children but I am not convinced it brainwashes them for life. My youngest son still prefers milk above all else and milk is not advertised. My oldest son, 9 years, did go through a wanting nuggets, seen it on the ads phase, around 3 - 6 years but since then plenty has counteracted this: the odd grown up meal out with us on holiday, the times he is allowed up late to share a grown up supper at home and the cookery programmes he avidly watches on TV (as do lots of his friends) have all served to make him see nuggets and the like as uncool toddler food. Seeing food on TV can have a positive effect. My son might be an exception. He loves 'food glorious food' and will eat lots. But I know he now prefers a supper of braised lamb shanks and french beans rather than beefburgers and chips. Though would try to fit in both

WWW, agree wholeheartedly about advertising - ds is more swayed by ads for toys at the moment but unfortunately he can spot those damned golden arches from a mile away!

BK - know what you mean about cooking from scratch on a week day, it's the last thing I feel like doing t 7pm after a commute home - I did laugh out loud at your coke comment!

www, i agree with you about advertising and pester power. on one of the few occasions ds was allowed to watch ordinary tv instead of videos recently, he came in pestering us for chocolate because penguin bars had been advertised...

when DD was born I was determined she wouldn't develop the sweet tooth I've got, so I said no sweets. Both sets of grandparents & all the great grandparents said I was being mean & plied her with sweets from less than a year old as soon as my back was turned. "One doesn't hurt", no but getting the taste for it does.

At Toddler group they were all given cakes & sweets on a regular basis- you can't say no to yours when everyone else is eating cakes in front of them. In the end I gave up. I realised that unless you kept your child away from other children there was no way you could stop them eating sweets.

Still, I never bought sugary cereal (only weetabix or plain cornflakes) until the eldest 2 were in their teens; my DS2's favourite food when he was very little was brocolli & he used to refuse "kid's meals" in favour of a "proper dinner". We were lucky that McDonalds didn't arrive in town until they were all at primary school, so it never became somewhere they wanted to go.

DD (now 17) prefers the same sort of cakes/biscuits/ puds junk I eat (& will suffer for it when she's older). The 2 older boys will generally eat anything they are given but my youngest doesn't like fruit... of any kind... bizarre.