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Blinking vegetarians

133 replies

codswallop · 15/08/2003 15:35

I am sorry I am very unsympathetic to vegetarianinsm - purely because of the hassle factor of catering for them.

Have veggie(but eats fish) friend coming - thought I would bbq.

what should I do?

Is it bad form to do her and her bf fish and us have lovely meat?

He used to eat meat but has compromised with her so she eats fish and he doesnt eat meats. CRACKERS

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gingernut · 16/08/2003 09:29

What I don't understand is why people who don't eat meat but do eat fish are usually referred to as being vegetarian. If you eat fish then you're not a vegetarian, IMO! (no offence meant, I just think it's odd terminology).

I won't add any advice coddie as you've had plenty of great suggestions.

Janstar · 16/08/2003 13:21

I was a vegetarian for 20 years, initially my reason was that I objected to the way animals are treated in the food industry. There is much suffering, and I decided that I would prefer not to be part of it. In those days everyone always wanted you to explain your reasons, which can be fine, but often they just did it to try and outwit you for some reason. They'd say things like, 'well do you eat eggs then?', and if you said yes, 'aha! but that is cruel too', etc etc. I got very fed up with this, because I have never tried to change someone else's mind about their dietary choices, and did not see why these people felt I was under an obligation to provide a full explanation for mine, and to enter into a philosophical debate about it. I just chose a plan that I felt happy with, and knew that it was right for me, but not necessarily for other people.

As years went by and the quality of meat was very questionable at times, with news of dead animals being fed to other animals, mad cow disease and so on, I felt even more sure that I had made a good choice.

I began eating fish again about year ago. I was severely anaemic and I felt that now I was over 40 I could no longer cope very well without major attention being paid to my diet. I have always said that I declined meat by choice but that I would not hesitate to kill and eat anything if I needed to, if I was starving or if my health demanded it. I consider myself more important than any animal. I never really had much objection to fish-eating in the first place, it is much healthier than meat and I do not believe there is much cruelty involved - there is some but it is not on the scale of animal farming cruelty. I personally do not feel emotionally concerned about fish dying to be eaten, but sometimes feel that way about animals. But the tedious way that people always wanted you to justify these choices 20 years ago meant that to do anything more complicated than just being simply a vegetarian would involve endless tiring defensive conversations with which I could not be arsed. Nowadays things are different, there are many more vegetarians and people with every different kind of dietary choice so one can have individual requirements without so much as raising an eyebrow most of the time.

There is a multitude of reasons why people make the food choices they do - moral, religious, health, to please other members of the family, maybe sometimes people don't like the taste or texture. I don't see that it should be a problem, we can all respect each other's right to eat according to our own conscience and not necessarily to have to be asked to explain our motives to anyone with a different philosophy. Unfortunately, as with most subjects, there will always be people who think their way is the only right way. Some ardent vegetarians are as guilty of this as the folk I knew years ago who thought I needed to justify my choices to them.

I am rarely drawn to discuss my food choices for the reasons I have said. There is also a danger that once you state your reasons other people will feel as if you are preaching at them, and I don't want that. But so many questions have been asked on this thread that I decided to at least give my viewpoint and apologise for the length of this post.

Incidentally, I would not refer to myself as vegetarian now, since I eat fish these days. I simply say that I do not eat meat.

aloha · 16/08/2003 13:37

Thanks, I just wondered. Maybe they don't like meat, but I suspect one was more veggie than the other and they compromised on fish. I agree that sometimes I think of the little lambs and feel sad in a way I don't about the little salmon. It's not really rational, but I can sympathise. Don't eat rabbit for those sorts of reasons. Wouldn't eat dog or cat either.
I wouldn't expect veggies to cook meat for me, because I assume they would find it morally/physically repulsive. I'm a very fussy eater (no pasta, no eggs) anyway so I'm not a position to judge. In my defence I never expect people to make me special food and have eaten a meal of bread, tomatoes,olive oil and wine before now - very nice it was too

Janstar · 16/08/2003 13:52

I also try not to be fussy at other people's houses. If they are at all worried I just say, give me whatever you are eating, minus the meat. It may or may not be a delicious meal for me, but I can survive the occasional meal that isn't perfectly nutritionally balanced! I am just grateful that someone has cared to invite me and cook something for me.

Restaurants used to be a problem 20 years ago too. You would be lucky to find one that had a dish on the menu suitable for a vegetarian. Nowadays virtually everywhere has a number of choices. I am so used to having to have the one vegetarian option that I often get overwhelmed by the amount of choice I have now.

lou33 · 16/08/2003 14:44

I was veggie til about 12 years ago, when I was pg with number 1. I kept dreaming of bacon sandwiches chasing me down the road so I had to succumb! Been a meat eater ever since.

monkey · 16/08/2003 15:41

It does really wind me up when people say they are vegetarians, but that they eat meat (& even chicken!) I mean, I know fish and chickens are not the brightest of animals, but you can hardly describe them as being vegetables.

sis · 16/08/2003 20:45

I was raised in a vegetarian household - the whole concept of eating meat was completely alien to me> My parents always told me that if I wanted to eat meat, I could do and be open about it with them (but not eat meat into our home!). I have never knowingly tasted meat - the very idea disgusts me so I would not eat veggie food that was cooked with meat or in the same grillpan/saucepan that meat had been cooked on without it been cleaned.

For me, Aloha, it is a cultural thing rather than animal cruelty/ecological/health etc. I suppose a bit like meat eaters in this country may feel about eating live worms!! Sorry, probably not a good comparison but the only one that comes to mind at the moment.

Dh became vegetarian before we got married - I did not ask him to - all I asked was that he not eat meat in our home and he was very happy with that and chose to become a veggie because he was not fussed about eating meat and thought that it would mean a lot to me (and it does) - but I get really fed up of people assuming that I forced him into it.

WideWebWitch · 17/08/2003 16:52

Sis, I could be wrong but I think it's Burger King (but not postive) who cook their veggie burgers on the same grill as meat burgers, which I think is awful and shows that they'e completely missing the point. They certainly used to in North West London fairly recently anyway. If I cook a roast I keep all the veg away from the meat and use a separate spoon for basting etc. I find one of the hardest things to avoid though is gelatine, ds gets cross that he can't have Haribo or Love Hearts since they contain gelatine, as do lots of other sweeets and some of the oddest things that you wouldn't necessarily expect to contain it, like plain Doritos for example. Whereas prawn cocktail crisps are fine, no fish or meat in them at all!

sis · 17/08/2003 20:57

WWW, I didn't know about Doritos! - don't often eat them but will check out the ingredients. I know what you mean about the sweets thing as ds loves 'sticky' sweets - most of which contain gelatin. I don't like him to have these sweets because of the damage to teeth but for occasional treats he gets rowntrees tuttie fruities/jelly beans/jelly tots as they appear to be vegetarian.

codswallop · 17/08/2003 21:53

you have all got to leave this thread now because me old Pal Finbar is back from her holiday now and I have just realised she too is veggie... but I love her and would cook anything for her. (Creep Creep)

Nb She is not he person conecerned...

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WideWebWitch · 17/08/2003 22:34

Sis, just thought I'd better check my facts and although I'm not sure it's gelatin in Doritos, I just found the following on a Halal website:

"it is obvious that Doritos is not present in the halal section as it has been confirmed that all Doritos (except Doritos Dippas) contain animal substances"

Finbar · 18/08/2003 21:54

Too late Coddy - have read the appalling things you said about veggies and am in cyberhuff!!

:0

Finbar · 18/08/2003 21:54

what i meant was

lilibet · 18/08/2003 22:39

A person who eats fish but no meat is called a piscatarian! Try telling someone that you are one of those and watch their eyebrows raise!! I havent eaten meat for three years and know loads of veggies, but only one pisc! About 18 months ago I was invited for a meal at a friends house, she has very little money and really shouldn't have invited people round, so one of us took a starter, one a pudd and the others brought wine. Sat down to the main course which was chicken curry, all eyes except the hostesses looked at me, she obviously didn't know, so I ate it. I thought that her feelings were far above that of the chickens or any of my principles. Must say it was bloody good too!!

Finbar · 19/08/2003 08:31

I would do that too - if someone had gone to a lot of trouble to cook a meal like that. It's not exactly sticking rigidly to your principles - but like you say Lillibet - sometimes you need to consider peoples feelings.

Mind you a few years ago our elderly neighbours invited us round for Xmas drinks..we took the baby monitor so we could hear if DD woke up next door....at some point my DH wandered in to their dining room, shortly afterwards he told me he could hear DD crying and beat a hasty retreat home. Our hostess then invited me through to the dining room for some nibbles - and there was this array of cold meats!! I couldn't do it on this occasion and politely explained our situation but made a huge play for some "lovely " looking cheese.

Neighbours have never been as friendly since and I haven't forgiven DH for leaving me in the lurch like that!

Boe · 19/08/2003 09:04

I do get sad thinking about the poor little lamb but afraid my sadness goes out of the window when I smell it roasting in the oven and think of it with lovely vegetables and gravy and mint sauce and redcurrant jelly - slurp slurp!! Also think cows are lovely and have nice big gentle eyes but agin rare ribeye with mustard wins over conscience!!

Did thnk about going Veggie once but thought it would only have an effect on the meat industry if I got half of the country to follow suit and little old me giving up was not going to change much.

M&S do some lovely salmon kebabs in a curry/yogurt marinade thingy and they also do lovely sardines in a garlic, lemon and something else marinade.

Not sure where you live but there is a great sausage shop in Beckenham which does the most wonderful veggie sausages and burgers (I ate one by mistake and was peasantly surprised!!).

Ghosty · 19/08/2003 10:46

Boe ... LOL Like you I feel sad but I just love meat too much to give it up! Mind you when my MIL (who is a farmer) cooked some roast lamb and then told me that it was the one that she had hand reared when its mother rejected it I did have a bit of a problem!
I totally am behind anyone who wants to be a veggie .... each to their own - that's what I say!
My DS has started shouting "Pigeon Pie" to pigeons in the street ... is that bad??

Boe · 19/08/2003 10:54

Ghosty LOL - am keeping the fact that meat comes from pretty sweet little animals at the mo - she is the sort of kid that would have a problem with it - we call lamb chucky, beef of course is ok, we do not eat pork in our house and chicken for some reason she has no problem with.

Don't think I would ever expect someone to give up meat for me - would be nice gesture of course but part of a realtionship is not trying to change someone and respecting them for their choices - IMO. Anyway DP would probably rather die than stop eating meat.

Do you think you could kill something and then eat it - I couldn't but I like it too much to be bothered about someone else doing it!! - I have no conscience obviously!!

Grommit · 19/08/2003 12:01

I became a vegetarian because I just don't like meat. I do eat some fish mainly for health reasons so I am a 'pescatarian' I suppose. Anyway, each to her own - I cook meat for dd and dh, just as long as I don't have to eat it.
Ghosty - my MIL is worse - she names her animals and treats them as pets (Gloria the pig, Thomas the turkey etc.) and then kills and eats them always announcing who is for dinner...sick woman!!!

bluecow · 19/08/2003 13:06

As a friend of mine puts it, if you eat anything that had a face you're not a vegetarian.
All power to veggies and espesh vegans though. I tried a detox diet once which was basically vegan and it was very hard. I think that level of dedication deserves respect!
I love meat - I just wish it didn't come from animals...

ThomCat · 19/08/2003 14:14

Does that include jammy-dodgers Bluecow??!!

Dinny · 23/08/2003 20:41

IMO, if you eat fish you just cannot be a vegetarian. Surely that is a fact?! Aloha, I share your confusion re this matter!

wobblymum · 24/08/2003 09:04

I think it's fine not to eat meat for any reason, because you just don't want to. But if you only shun certian types, why bother calling yourself a vegetarian. Other people who decide not to eat certain foods don't have special names. I hate eggs and raw tomatoes and some veggies, but I just explain that to people - I don't have a special name!!

If you say you're a vegetarian, you should eat no meat at all, even fish. Otherwise, just tell people what you don't eat.

tallulah · 24/08/2003 18:50

Janstar put it really well- why should vegetarians have to justify their choice to everyone else?

I have been vegetarian since 1980 for ethical reasons. No meat, no fish, no gelatine etc. People would say "how come you wear leather?". At the time I had a motorbike & there was no man-made material strong enough to protect against coming off the bike.

DH stopped eating meat (at home) when we got married. He is free to do as he pleases but chooses not to eat meat in our home. When we are out he sometimes chooses to eat meat, but more often than not, he doesn't.

We have raised all 4 children vegetarian & it has been quite a challenge. DD is very strong willed & would take it upon herself to make sure the others didn't eat meat at birthday parties. We relaxed the rules on gelatine for them, just because it made their lives easier when they were out, though we still don't have it at home. They had leather shoes because I didn't feel it was fair to damage their feet for my principles.

DS1 has dyspraxia & other problems. He is very thin & went through a phase of not growing. The dietician at the hospital told me our diet was perfectly adequate for the children but I decided we would have occasional fish for his sake, in case his lack of growth was down to deficiencies. I was pregnant with DS3 at the time & also craved white-fish. As it turns out, it isn't, but we do now sometimes (not regularly) have fish.

I can only face white fish (& usually only that in batter). The children like tuna & pilchards. Since they started having fish, eating out is easier. My niece remains strictly vegetarian & when she was tiny her parents couldn't take her to eat out- children's meals are always burger/sausage/fish. We travel a lot, so it was simpler to have a children's option available to them. (we've just been away & the children were stuck with fish every night for a week because there was no other non-meat option!!)

I have compromised my principles, but would still describe myself as vegetarian because I do not eat meat, chicken, gelatine or related products. If I described myself as only not eating meat, that leaves the question open over chicken, seafood etc, which I will not touch. What does it matter to someone else, how a vegetarian describes themselves?

codswallop · 24/08/2003 18:59

I feel that veggies can do as they please - but (as I said when I started the thread) i find it hard when they come araund to meals. because
a. I am unused to cooking for them
b. You never know what they do and dont eat.

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