starting on solids

[Samuelkane]

My baby is 10 weeks old and I have started to offer solids for one meal a day he is having baby rice just one teaspoon with dinner time bottle. He was a big baby born 9lb 15 oz. I am getting such mixed advice and am worrying I am doing this two early and it will harm him. Any advice would be grately recieved.

I've just got back from meeting up with friends from ante-natal classes and I'm a bit worried. All the babies are around 24 weeks, all are on 3 meals a day and many are having things like Weetabix, pasta, meat casseroles etc. and finger food. Our dd is still only on one meal a day and that is puree. I've now read that if I don't introduce dd to a wide range of foods between now and nine months she will be a picky child, but dd's tummy being what it is I have to take things slowly. I'm happy with dd as things are and am wondering about what advice the other mums have been given. I'm sure wheat isn't supposed to be given so young? And will dd catch up and be able to have a wide range of foods by 9 mo?

Wheat can be given from 6 months if you are happy to give it. My ds did have Weetabix etc after that, and suffered no side effects.

Did anyone see that programme about Neanderthal Man about a year ago? Well, they speculated that mothers breast fed until the children were 5 years old. Not sure how they reached that conclusion, but it is interesting. Obviously breast milk is nutritious enough to last longer than 6m. Don't think that I could have managed that long though! Ds was on my boob practically every hour until solids were firmly established.

ionesmum - I'd not worry about what others are doing. As long as your daugther is getting plenty milk she'll be fine.

I think 3 big meals a day at nearly 6 months is too much to be honest. I too have a friend who started solids around 3 months and she seemed to constantly stuffing food into the poor little thing. I thought her son looked terribly pasty having to deal with all that food. I mean a child can't really move properly till they can sit up around 6/7 months so they've just got to sit there and digest all this heavy food. One point I've also heard is that a child can't really turn their head away to refuse food till around 5 months so for small babies it is almost like force feeding.

My ds was getting 3 small meals around 9 months when he started bottom shuffling with gusto.

I think the picky child with food later is just rubbish and an old wives tale.

As I've said before on other boards I did b/f my son for around 6 days on just b/m and nothing else when he was 18 months (when he had a tummy bug) so it can be done with an older child.

mears - what do you think about vitamin supplements for b/feeding child and mother from 6 months - is this necessary?

Oh and yes ionesmum she will catch up. I had ds on only one meal at 6 months but by 9 months he was eating yoghurt for breakfast and another 2 small meals of fish/meat/pasta etc. Pretty much what you are saying those other babies were eating.

Thanks for your replies. I read the thing about babies becoming picky in this week's Radio Times.

I am worried about dd getting behind but also about these babies eating so much, so soon. I think that there was a bit of a competitive edge to the whole thing and I didn't feel very comfortable.

A few more thoughts:

Advantages of waiting till later to wean, ie around 6 months, apart from the obvious of preventing tummy upsets/food allergies.

Utensils don?t need to be sterilised.
Baby can hold his own food
Baby can sit up properly in a high chair
Baby can use a beaker to drink from (which doesn?t need to be sterlised!)
Baby can have a wider range of foods (such as wheat, well cooked eggs etc)
Less smelly nappies to deal with

This is what the Bounty Babycare guide states -

"It is important not to delay weaning beyond the age of 6 months. Studies amongst toddler age children have shown that late weaning, or weaning onto a poor quality diet, can lead to iron deficiency anaemia."

It then states that there is less risk if older babies drink follow-on milks with iron supplements.

Nowhere does it state what these 'studies' are - there is no list of references at the back of the booklet.

To me it seems that this statement is undermining those women who continue to breastfeed beyond 6 months stating that their milk doesn't provide enough for the child and encouraging them to give formula milk to be 'safer'.

It also says in a later chapter - "The Department of Health recommends that all children from six months to at least two years should have vitamin A, D and C supplements, which are available at low cost from child health clinics. There is a risk of deficiency among children aged from six months to three years, because of the very rapid rate at which calciuim is being 'laid down in bone' at this time'"

Who here on this board gives vitamin supplements?

Eulalia, I got out my baby recipe books yesterday and one gives the line that late weaning will definitelt lead to a picky child and the other that weaning much before six mo will lead to food allergies. One says she must have lumps now, another not until 7-8 mo. I know my hv will advise to stuff dd with anything and evrything. Dd's paedetrician didn't feel it was necessary for dd to see a dietician but I think I might ask for a referral, esp. as dh's family all have asthma.

ionesmum,

I doubt very much that your friends children are really tucking into 3 full meals a day, every mum is just a little prone to exaggerate! At very least I'm sure that the food is mashed up or put through a blender (we use a Braun hand blender which you can vary the speed and thereby the consistency produced). You can still cook casseroles,pasta etc (without using salt or stock cubes containing salt)and just puree to suit, gradually trying it lumpier.

I really would not get too concerned about it. Go at your baby's pace. It may be that the others are having three much smaller meals than your one. We were advised to wait until the first meal was at 150-200g before introducing the next and her appetite rapidly developed. We still blend the food for our 11 month old and offer her pieces of veg/pasta/bread etc alongside to chew on, but as she has had a minor reflux problem until recently she was still prone to choke and be sick. She now enjoys her finger foods (she ate a banana this evening) even though she started them several months later than DS. It all evens out in the end.

For first time mums wondering about weaning - what, when, how much etc - I recommend Annabel Karmel?s books - really great. My 14 month old eats all sorts of stuff thanks to her books - some fruit and veg I had never bought before but are now regulars in the shopping bag.
One tip for those starting out, buy a load of ice cube trays to freeze big batches of pureed fruit and veg. When they are a little older ttry freezing baby portions in the larger yoghurt pots (eg. mullerlight!) Although fresh is obviously best, when you fancy a hot curry, it is handy to have something milder in the freezer for your little ones.
Another quick tip - I first tried baby rice with mine and she hated it - it wasn?t that she was not ready, it was just way too bland for her. I mixed in a little apple puree and have never looked back. At 14 months she will eat everything and anything - current favourite is risotto - nice and sticky so great for learning to feed herself.

LIZS, I am very interested to read about your baby's reflux. Our dd possibly had reflux as she hated lying down. Although she has lost her gagging reflex and has been taking solids for seven weeks' now, she gagged on her carrot & rice this evening and then spent the rest of the mealtime taking mouthfuls and then spitting them all over me, which she thought was very funny!

It really does seem like the other mums stuff their babies all day long. I'm happy that dd is on four meals a day -she has breakfast, lunch, dinner and supper - but they ar emeals of milk rather than solids. We are giving her solids at dinner-time and I've been adding breakfast these past few days. Could this be why she didn't want her solids at dinner?

Also, is it better to give solids with her bottle or separately?

JayTree, thanks for your tips. I like Annabel Karmel but her advice is contradicted in other books. I don't really like freezer cooking and dd eats enough each day for me to cook fresh - I prepare it as I prepare our dinner so it's no bother. And she has always loved baby rice but it didn't agree with her. Most of my friends do swear by freezing though.

Eulalia - I have been away for a couple of days so sorry about not replying to you. I have a great faith in nature and did not give any of my children vitamin drops. This is probably contrary to some latest research and my youngest is 8yrs.
I did give my first 2 fluoride drops religiously as advised and ds no.1 has terrible looking teeth because he has fluoridosis ( brown mottled teeth due to excess fluoride). And yes I did use fluoride free toothpaste when he was a baby because he was on supplements. The dosage and age of starting fluoride was actually changed around the time ds 2 was born in 1989. Nos. 3 & 4 did not get any. All children's teeth are lovely.
I digress a bit. What I am trying to say is that I think nature looks after our young and breastmilk has all they need. Intuition only

mears, thanks I asked you because I thought you were training to be a midwife or am I mistaking you for someone else?

Does anyone else ever feel like this - that they just can't cope with feeding their baby? My baby is 17 weeks tomorrow and is exclusively breastfed, not even had so much as a drink of water. I just feel that the responsiblitly is so much and that I'd like a break! Particulalry with 3 year old in constnat tow too...

Sorry just having a bad day!

Been on hol, so have only skimmed this thread a bit. But I think I can help out with the 'how do they know that x months is right for solids?' bit.

For a long time, the advice to mothers has been the same, whether their babies are breastfed, formula fed or a combination. 'Start at 4-6 months'.....interpreted, wrongly, by many HVs, as 16 weeks without any leeway.

It may be that formula fed babies do need something else at 4 months - the taste and consituents of formula never change (unlike breastmilk, which prepares babies for family meals by taking on different tastes, and which meets the needs of the growing baby by becoming tailor-made eg by becoming at times, more calorie-dense, and by matching the appetite needs of the baby).

It certainly appears that formula fed babies tend to 'ask' for something other than more milk earlier than breastfed babies, and solids are on the whole given to formula feds sooner than breastfeds.

But when large numbers of babies have been studied for growth and health, it is pretty clear that the majority of babies are fine on breastmilk alone for six months - www.pediatrics.org/cgi/content/abstract/110/2/343 is only one of a large number of papers showing just this.

There are lots of 'clues' why six months is about the right age, from a biological, anthropological and social point of view. Babies can chew a bit then (with or without teeth), and they have some hand-eye co-ordination to hold on to foods and eat them (they don't really need spoons or plates); they are sociable and enjoy joining in activities, such as meals; they can sit, with help, on a lap without much support; they're less likely to choke; they're interested in new experiences like tastes and textures and have started to explore things with their mouths.

There is also some research about allergies and early solids, which means giving solids much before three months or so could be bad news for susceptible babies. I don't think the evidence is that strong for after this time, though there are some papers which suggest six months does give protection.

The stuff about oral development is rubbish - a total misunderstanding of a small study (ref not to hand) of babies who were bottle fed for a long time, and who already had motor delay and other problems linked with a disability. To apply it to healthy breastfed babies (or bottle fed babies) is quite wrong.

Prolonged exclusive bf - say, after nine months or so - does show up as a risk for anaemia but by then the majority of babies are having some solids - they are putting everything into their mouths, and will end up with stuff from your plate anyway. There is no point in deliberately delaying solids after six months....but going at the baby's pace means most babies will inevitably have little tastes and bites from this age anyway.

There is very little academic work done on the nutritional needs of formula fed babies - no long term studies AFAIK to hint at whether four months or six months is 'best'. Common sense would indicate that following the baby's lead is fine, and making sure a variety of tastes and textures are given to build up a repertoire of healthy, enjoyable foods. There is no rush and it is not a race. It is not 'better' to have three meals a day at five months - babies still need milk (formula, breast) at this age. The younger the baby, the more the need for the milk, so too many solids can displace the milk too early (babies only having small tummies!).

Vitamins - vitmain D supplements are already in formula. UK babies probably do benefit from them, and need them in addition to breastmilk from about 6 months...not because breastmilk is deficient, but because our weather and our lifestyles are!! I think I have posted on this here before. In generations gone by, we probably all were outside more, and got our Vit D from light. These days, we are indoors or in the car, and babies in cold weather are wrapped up, so their skin doesn't get the light it needs to make Vit D. This is especially important for black or brown babies who, ethnically, may need more Vit D than our lousy weather allows them.

But you can get Vit D from other foods, and if you and your baby have a walk outside several times a week, with the baby not totally cocooned, you're probably ok.

Eulaliia - I am a midwife and have been for longer than I care to remember
You are doing a fantastic job feeding your baby and especially for so long exclusively. Breast feeding lasts for such a short time in your child's life. I can appreciate how you are feeling but in a few weeks time, when you do start solids, your baby's dependency on you diminishes quite rapidly. With a toddler in tow, it is much easier to manage a baby with 'food on tap' than skiddling about with solids or bottles. I found it more problematic when I had to start thinking about what I was going to give my baby at meal times instead of just popping them on the breast. You are probably just having a bad day ( or few days) as we all do. You are a star really

I agree Mears, she is a star! I remember how fed up I was getting with almost hourly feeds, even when ds had started solids.

When I was b/f'ing (still am once a day, even though 13 month old ds started solids at 4 calendar months), everyone I met was surprised that I was still going. I would get comments at how well I was doing, and that really surprised me. I then realised how many people do give up or don't even start.

Obviously I am not knocking anyone who formula feeds, because I nearly started so many times. It was only the lack of faffing around that comes with b/f'ing that stopped me!

I do feel proud that I kept going with the feeding, but it nearly did me in! I felt totally unsexy, which I suppose is your body's way of making sure that you don't have another baby to jeopardise the one that you are already feeding. I looked c**p, and only now do I feel back to normal again.

I would definitely consider boosting b/f'ing with formula if I had another baby, because then dh could help out more, and it would give me more freedom.

(((sniff))) thanks mears and Chinchilla - brought a tear to my eye as yes I was having a bad day. these comments do help. I've never tried dd on a bottle, just never got round to it and it doesn't seem worth starting now even with expressed milk. dh isn't around till evenings to feed her anyway and I'd rather not use formula in case of a reaction.

tiktok - thanks for the advice. I did a bit of research this w/e and found some info on vitamins and about starting solids. Will post more when I have time. Certainly sunlight is a big factor for vit D and I make a point of putting dd and ds outside every day. dd had a nap outside for about 15 mins in the late afternoon. Her skin is just glowing. obviously it is about being sensible with sunburn but some high factor sunscreens prevent the skin being able to manufacture vit D. Anyway as I say I'll post more ...

ionesmum

Our dd's reflux was only diagnosed at her 8 week check , much to my shock, as she had already developed an ear infection as a result. However it was comparatively minor in that she did not really vomit much back but her behaviour up until then did fit with the diagnosis. She hated being laid down flat in her carry cot and we were advised to raise the head of her cot and keep her in her carseat during the day in order to limit the possibility of her refluxing her feeds. Also to sit her for an hour after feeds before even changing her nappy, not always possible!! I thought that this would improve when we introduced solids and to some extent it did, but she was by then more mobile and that then caused the problems. When we introduced formula feeds at 6 months we were also able to add a prescribed thickener to the feeds, rather like cornflour to help her keep it down.

DD has not really suffered for any of this although I'm sure it has been uncomfortable at times just like acid indigestion. When I went to the doctor here (we live in Switzerland) to ask about her being sick on lumps and finger foods he simply suggested holding off for a further month or so and then trying again. This allowed her gullet to rest in the interim and eventually she has managed to keep them in although she is still sick a few times a month but the benefits of her having them outweigh the discomfort and mess.

My advise would be to go back to the doctor and get a proper diagnosis but in the meantime stick to a consistency she is comfortable with and make the occasional meal a bit thicker to see how it goes. The occasional meal being chucked back is not going to do her any serious harm as she will make up for this at the next breastfeed.I would suggest that the carrot incident the other night probably turned into a bit of a game. I used to decide that our kids had had enough when they blew it out again. I give milk separately to solids with at least 1/2 hour gap except with breakfast. It may well be that by introducing breakfast, dinner will be a little smaller but I'm sure this will be temporary.

It is very much a case of trial and error and appetites can vary so much that you should follow what suits you and your baby primarily. I have also used Annabel Karmel and found the recipes a good basis for family meals as well, blending them for dd. Ds now 4 eats a wide variety of foods I'm sure as a result of this and he was very picky as a baby especially when teething (another possibility with at your dd's age).

Good luck

Thanks for such a detailed reply, LIZS. Our dd does sound similar in that we had to keep her upright for ages. I think that you might be right about the carrot incident being a game, I've actually started a new thread as dd started gagging on it but I now think that dd is simply letting us know that she'd gone off carrot and it'd be more fun to play with it than eat it! Dd only possets a little.

Is your dd excessively windy i.e. farty?

No our dd has not been a particularly windy baby and has tolerated most foods including broccoli, cauliflower etc from an early age. Incidently most babies have outgrown the worst of reflux by 6 months or so, therefore if your dd's problems are due to that the symptoms will most probably be subsiding by now.

I've used plenty of jars out of convenience for both of our kids and I think that certainly the better of these can be a good substitute for home cooking so don't feel guilty. Never used the dried packets though, apart from baby rice and cereals, as I felt they were too grainy and texture would be less varied.

I'm sure that you will find that weaning will become easier despite your present ups and downs.

Good luck

Thanks, LIZS. Dd has now decided that all veg is evil and will only eat fruit! I have no idea what to do now!

ionesmum

When our ds went off a particular food I'd mix it with a sweeter flavour ie a teaspoon of apple puree to disguise it a bit! I discovered this by accidently defrosting an ice cube of apple with a mixture of savouries. Otherwise when teething he would only eat savoury jars containing fennel (Boots used to a selection) so perhaps that is worth a go. Here fennel tea is given to young babies to relieve wind and colic.

Hope it helps

Hi, LIZS. Whereabouts are you? I've thought of giving dd fennel tea but I don't know if it's safe. I'm giving dd apple in loads of things at the moment as I can't find any ripe organic pears. I hadn't thought of looking for fennel in baby food though, what a good idea. I do worry about giving dd so much fruit, today I tried dd with potato (I'd delayed it because of her wind) and she just spat it out.

Thanks for all your help, it is much appreciated by a novice like me!

Ionesmum, if you buy the underripe pears and just leave them, they should ripen up - pears are fine ripened like this, unlike some other fruit.

Oooh, I didn't know this, thanks!