Advice for a total ignoramus - DS wants a fish...

[shockedballoon]

DS(5) wants a fish. I'm pretty sure it's because he can't have a cat, but he has been consistent about wanting one for a while now and I am prepared to give it a go.

The last time I had a fish I was about 8 and it lived for around a week in a plastic Tupperware tub. Not the best life poor wee thing.

I have dipped my toe into research on the web, but was a bit bamboozled by everything. It is however pretty clear that a glass bowl, bit of gravel, plastic greenery and a solitary goldfish is not going to cut it and would possibly be a bit cruel.

Realistically I want to initially spend as little as possible, but also I want to make sure that whatever fish I get are happy and healthy. I can always upgrade at birthday/Christmas if DS takes to it.

So - what fish? What size tank? What accessories? Tips/suggestions please!

Yeah, it's a bit of a minefield. There's a lot of really dodgy information out there and a lot of myths.

First of all, tank size- how much space do you have? Small tanks are often thought of as best for beginners but if you go too small then it's actually harder to maintain and can be a total nightmare. I would suggest about 60 litres as a minimum size, so around 24" long.

There are lots of small fish that can live happily in a tank that size, but most of them are tropical. Goldfish get massive and can live for 20 years so although they are pretty easy to look after, they are not great for beginners as they are such a big commitment. Tropical fish aren't necessarily harder to look after but because there are more species available, it's tricky to choose the right ones (people often mix species that don't get on or end up with predatory fish that eat all the others). But if you need some help choosing then I can help you narrow it down.

There's a lot of stuff to buy to start with but it can be done on the cheap. Brand new you'd be looking at £100+ for everything, but if you get a tank on Freecycle then you've halved the cost at least. Try second hand groups on Facebook as well, but definitely do NOT buy anything that comes with fish. People can sometimes unwittingly buy tankbusters (fish that grow to more than 18") and then sell them as a 'bargain' to unsuspecting buyers who are then landed with a problem fish.

The bare minimum you will need:

Tank (60 litres+)
Filter (absolutely essential!!)
Heater (unless you want minnows)
Substrate for the bottom of the tank (playsand looks good and is cheap)
Plants (real ones best, try ebay or FB for bargains. Silk ones also OK)
Lighting
Water testing kit
Water treatment to remove chlorine from tap water
Cleaning kit (syphon tube and a bucket)

Hope that helps a bit! :)

Ah EauRouge you are a superstar! Exactly the sort of starting point I was looking for. I will have a looksie around some freecycle etc sites and get equipped up.
No doubt I will be back for actual fish selection/food advice.
Thank you!

Tank under 25 litres - cherry shrimp. They come in all sorts of colours, need a heater set to 25 and lots of plants.

Tank between 25 and 60 litres - Siamese fighting fish, also known as a Betta.
Cheap, hardy, colourful and can be trained to do tricks.
Will need a heater set between 25 and 27.
If you put masses of live plants in there, especially cheap fast growing things like elodea you won't need a filter.
Sand not gravel.

For a tank larger than 60 litres if you want super easy, masses of live plants (more than 50% of the tank bottom covered in plants), sand, no heater or filter and a nice shoal of 10 white or gold cloud mountain minnows, I think that is what they are called.

:)

Don't put the tank near direct sunlight or windows or the water will go green.

Lots of people hate pond snails but I love mine, they keep my glass sparkling and don't eat the plants. Don't over feed your fish and they shouldnt give you any problems.

Google natural planted tank for advice on going filter less.
Love my filter less tank.

Aquaessentials is good for plants, the more you have the better.

I second playsand also, I get mine from Argos.

Yes, it is possible to go filterless, wouldn't recommend it for a beginner though.

Yes - not sure I want to plunge straight into filter free though I like the idea of it.

DS was looking over my shoulder whilst I was googling the fish mentioned and, funnily enough, he now has his heart set on a Betta fish. He even started on a list of names before school this morning. Bless him, his enthusiasm is pretty infectious and I am quite excited about it now too. I'm gunning for my suggestion of Bellatrix however his current favourites are Rainbow or Alice (from 'in wonderland' fame)

I am struggling a little with where exactly the tank will go. We live in a back to back terrace which gets the sun pretty much all day so we are short on dark corners/shaded areas despite it being over 4floors. Only place it could go in the lounge is the small wall area between the window and front door, it would be shaded by the side of the curtain but this is where the tree goes at Xmas and we are pretty maxed out plug wise there due to TV etc (as evidenced by lots of plugging/unplugging for tree lights).
DS's top floor room is pretty bright even with the blind drawn, which it generally is for this very reason. The only place for the tank would be directly by the window, though it would be underneath the level of the window ledge on a low bench so sort of a bit shaded and the blind would generally be drawn...? DS's room also gets the widest temp variation as well, partic in winter, but presume the heater would cope with this?

Can you put a pond snail in with a Betta? I've been looking on ebay/gumtree etc and there's a couple of 40litre tanks that look manageable size wise. I'm not working today so I'll do a bit more browsing and hopefully start making a few bids.

Definitely tropical far less messy than a goldfish (even with a filter).
My house is really cold and the heater copes well in winter, but I do keep an eye that it's still working in case I come down to Armageddon.

The all in one biorb types are lovely looking but they suggest you replace the filter monthly which can end up costly, although I have heard of people successfully rinsing (in a bowl of tank water to keep the friendly bacteria) them and fish being fine.

Biorbs do look great, I would have one as a planted tank maybe with some shrimp but defo no fish. They're not very good for fish, even the larger ones. And yes, they definitely want you to replace more than is necessary- means more £££ for them. Bit cheeky!

The tank doesn't have to be in total darkness, I would avoid anywhere really bright where it gets sun for a lot of the day, so not a windowsill or somewhere directly in front of the window where it will be in full sun. Both my tanks get some sunlight and they are fine. Also try to avoid anywhere near a radiator.

40 litres is just about big enough for a betta, I would aim closer to 50 if you can because it will make maintenance easier. You can keep snails with them; I would go for assassin snails because they are slow breeders so you shouldn't get overrun.

I've got a little bristle nose Pleco to help keep the algae down. He does a great job. Pleco's can grow big so be careful on the type.

If you go for a filter, please read up on fish less cycling!!

Whatever you do do not put fishy in there before cycling is complete (0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, low nitrate, less than 20 ideally) because while he may be fine, there's a good chance he will die!

Yes, defo fishless cycle and don't let any sales assistants tell you otherwise! Some places will still recommend using 'hardy' fish to cycle a tank, or just stocking gradually. There's no reason not to do a fishless cycle (although it does take ages so your DS may very well complain )

There's some info about it here.

Just to let you guys know - and to say thanks for all the advice, DS is now the proud owner of Freddie the ( siamese ) Fighting Fish.
Freddie lives in a 40L tank with a couple of assassin snails. Tank was obtained from eBay for £65 which included£150-worth of stuff (still had receipt as only bought new 8wks previously). Fishless cycling done etc.
Freddie seems to be quite a lively sociable wee chap - swims up to the front of the tank whenever someone goes up to it and is generally a bit of a show off. Also swims up to the top ready for feeding time like an eager puppy! Thinking of getting 4 neon tetras as well as Pets at Home website said this would be fine for this size of tank, though I guess more than that would be too much (they also said that it would take a shrimp as well).
Anyway - thanks for your help. DS is made up with his fishy friend!

Pics are of daytime and nighttime Freddie.

Glad Freddie is settling in well. Can't see photos yet as I'm on my phone. Fighters are fab little fish.

I don't agree with P@H about the neons- 4 isn't enough for a shoal and the tank is a little small for more fish. You could definitely have a few shrimp for sure though.

No neons!!!!

They are terribly sickly, weak, sensitive fish little fish now.

Despite their teeny size they are very active shoaling fish (need to be kept in a group of 6 or more), 40 litres won't cut it.

And finally, you have a Siamese fighting fish.
These are territorial, semi aggressive fish.
Fighters vary in personality, some are extremely friendly and like fishy company, others will destroy everything.
Being territorial, it's very likely that your fighter will flare up and be very cross indeed if you add anything to 'his' tank.

If you want to try more fish you need to remove Freddie, change the layout of the tank, then put him back in last after the new fish.

Also, another thing to consider.
Fighters have long, flowing fins.
More placid fighters can be seriously injured by smaller fish buying and ripping at their fins.
Neons are known fin nippers!

Your best bet for fishy friends would be corydoras (they come in different sizes - the smallest are Pygmy, habrosus, hastatus then panda), ottoclinus or ember tetras which don't tend to nip flowy fins.

I think red cherry shrimp would be your best bet if you are interested in adding something else. Be prepared for how much more sensitive shrimp are. They need slow acclimatisation. Even then your fish may see they as prey.

No to neons as others have pointed out - they need a good sized school and 40 litres is to small. I would give the same advice for corydoras catfish. Despite how a lot of people keep them, they are highly social and should be in good sized schools. Your tank is too small even for the pygmy variety in my opinion.

Wow - ok thanks everyone. Advice duly noted!

Freddie seems pretty ballsy, not the shy retiring type at all. He likes nibbling the occasional blob of daphnia jelly off your finger and always swims up to the front of the tank when you approach it. I am unsure if this is actually fightiness or friendliness though! (Obvs DS is convinced its friendliness and is worried he's lonely). Will try a couple of shrimp.

Looks like P@H are setting tanks up to fail. The link is to the tank we have (albeit ours is 2nd hand) - check out the description!
Linky link

Yeah, P@H's website is a veritable mine of shite information about fish:

This tank is ideal for Single Tailed Goldfish or Fancy Goldfish maximum of three.

I mean, what the actual fucking fuck. That tank isn't big enough for one goldfish, let alone three. 1 x sucking loach? Sure, if you don't mind it eating all your minnows after a while. That's if they survive the overstocking. And 1 x oto? They are shoaling fish, one on its own will be miserable/shit scared. I think the people that wrote those suggestions are getting actual living fish confused with pick and mix sweets.

God, I need a gin after reading all that.

Anyway, Freddie sounds ace and he's very pretty. A lot of fish will learn to eat from your hand and learn to associate people with food so he's probably just being friendly/nosy. He knows you're not another fish so he shouldn't be territorial towards you.

Glad I posted here - could've had a lot of dead fish and a fairly upset DS on my hands!