New to keeping fish. Some advice please?

[sparkleshine]

This might be a silly question really and should've asked whilst I was in the pet store. When I clean the tank and accessories inside, including doing the 25% water change, do I remove the fish and put in a bucket or leave them in the tank? Internet reading has brought up mixed views.
Also, it's says not to leave the fish tank light on for more than 8hrs a day. Does this harm them otherwise?
It's been set up for a week, got my first 3 little fish (danio) yesterday and so far still alive. Got some advice from the shop about feeding, made sure I had the correct equipment and size tank for them etc.

I was a bit worried as when I got home this eve they were floating near the bottom and wondered if they were sleeping or if I'd missed something and dying. Put the light on and they moved eventually after food.

I am no expert but...

Try to not mess them about too much. They are harmed more by new owners trying too hard and changing too much too often than by neglect.

The light is as much about giving them a rest as about how much algae grows in their water. (Yes, being at the bottom like than means they're resting - thy need their rest. Good not to startle them with turning the light on often.)

I used to always put our fish into a clean (but not too clean - well rinsed and left for a while) bucket/bowl IN WATER FROM THE DIRTY TANK. Really important to keep them in the same water while changing the bowl, no matter how soupy and to gently place/pour that water back into the tank with them.

Congrats on your new pets!

I'll answer your qns first then I have a few of my own :)

1. When I clean the tank and accessories inside, including doing the 25% water change, do I remove the fish and put in a bucket or leave them in the tank When you say "clean" what do you mean? Is the tank brand new or second hand? As for water change specifically, not it's not required to take them out. If you do use a bowl or bucket to put them in, use one that you ONLY use for the fish or fish water. You can rinse it in plain water or bleach solution but never wash it out with any other chemical.
2. it's says not to leave the fish tank light on for more than 8hrs a day. Does this harm them otherwise? Not really "harm" but they need to sleep at some point so it's best not to.

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I don't know if it's against forum rules but there is a goldfish (pet) forum I frequent so please PM me if you'd like the link.

Re the bottom dwelling, are they resting on the bottom? Are their fins standing up or "clamped" against their sides? I get the feeling your fish are clamping which means they're sick. Fish don't typically sit on the bottom to "rest", they rest anywhere in the tank. One of mine likes to sit nearer the top near where i put the food in... I think he's hoping he doesn't sleep through a feed or something :P

Here are my qns:

1. did you cycle the tank first?
2. What are the readings for pH, ammonia, nitrates and nitrites?
3. What dechlorinator did/do you use?
4. What size tank?
5. What size/type of filter?
6. What is the water temp?
7. Have you treated them for parasites (fish stores are notorious for unwell fish)?

I have 4 fish. A black moor, a red cap oranda, a white comet and a calico ryukin. My tank and filter were well established (cycled long ago so lots of good bacteria) when I got the above fish. I had 2 other fish when I got the white comet but I didn't know then what I know now and introducing it killed my previous fish (parasites thanks to the fish store). I treated the tank and my new fish are now doing really well. I look forward to upgrading my tank to a bigger one this year :)

Re advice mentioned above, you do NOT need to keep the same grungy water and put it back in your nice clean tank. If your tank and filter are properly cycled it won't matter.

Thanks for the advice. I haven't actually bought any testing things yet for nitrate, ammonia and ph. I'll get some. I haven't cycled the tank either. Whatever that means. Wasn't advised or instructed to do this.
Ive got a thermometer but not checked the temp or what it's supposed to be. This was given to me by someone. The tank is new. Bought for a Christmas present for me a my DS.
Didn't really take a close look at how their find were. Just noticed them floating about an inch from the bottom and they moved when I turned the light on.
Sorry I'm completely rubbish about this but don't want them to die. My DS has named them and loves them already

I'll PM you the link to my fish forum :) It will help you out.

Which fish forum is it?

OP, if you answer all the questions that sykadelic asked then we can help you on here, there are plenty of fish geeks around.

Hi. Sorry been working long shifts

Tank is 28litres. Filter and light came with the tank so used that. It's an aqua one.
Temp showing at 20 I think but it's hard to read. Might have to get a new one
I set tank up and used some tap safe and filter start a few days before putting fish in

Fish are still living at present. Is it normal for them to hover around one area? Currently hovering in the bottom corner. They have come up for food.
Is feeding once a day ok? Food tub says up to 3 x day but don't seem to want more than once.
They look healthy. But then not sure what I shod look for. No spots or fun problems I can see.
Will have to buy a book and some extra equipment

You don't need a book, you can get all the info you need online if you're careful about where to get it!

I can give you a few tips, there's a lot to go through so if I don't explain anything well enough then just let me know, I'm a crappy proof-reader

What was the filter start stuff? Most of the filter stuff I've tried has been rubbish and hasn't worked at all. Have you got any water readings?

Unfortunately, 28 litres isn't big enough for danios, or any fish really. Danios are active fish and need lots of room to zip about. They also like to live in a big group (this helps prevent any bullying too). If you want to keep them then they'll need a bigger tank. I'd go with about 60-80 litres for a small shoal of 8 or so fish. They are fantastic to watch when they're in the right environment and more than likely you'll get babies too.

In answer to your original question, you shouldn't remove the fish when cleaning the tank, it causes unnecessary stress and can potentially cause injury. They can jump if they get scared so leave them in the tank.

Sorry about the bad news :( It's sad that so many shops give out such duff advice and that manufacturers sell rubbish little tanks that are not fit for purpose. I wish there was more protection for consumers (and fish!)

Oh bugger me.
It was pets at home I went to. The lady who sold me the fish advised me that my tank would be suitable for up to 6 danios but to have 3 for now to see how I go. Something about 1cm of fish to every litre of water I think. My maths isn't that good but mine are only about 2cm at the moment and not sure how big they actually get.

Both the filter start and tap safe are Interpet brand. I got these and the thermometer from a neighbour of my parents temporarily to start me off before I buy my own and he keeps tropical fish. Looks after them very well. He actually gave me spare stones and plastic plants too (washed thoroughly)

Oh that explains it, P@H are rubbish. There are various rules about working out volume but you need to start off with a minimum tank size and take into account things like type of fish, diet, behaviour etc- P@H did not do this so that's why you've ended up with the wrong size. The staff have really minimal training, just enough to give you the impression they know what they're talking about.

Zebra danios don't get huge, maybe 3" max, but if you look at the shape of them then you can see they are built for speed. They need space to charge around and be danios.

I've got 1 striped, 1 spotty and 1 white (think she said albino) one. 3" sounds big compared to their size now. Didn't expect them to grow so big, though really had no idea either way.
I'll just have to do my best with what I've got for the moment. I won't get anymore though.
They do seem to like this bottom corner of the tank.

Thanks :)

Are there any type of fish best suited for my tank?

There's some really good info about zebra danios here.

There aren't any fish suitable for a 28 litre tank, sorry. :( You could plant it up with real plants and some strong lighting though, they look beautiful and take very little effort.

If you've got the time, maybe send P@H some feedback tell them they're shit so that this kind of thing can be prevented from happening again. They'll probably just fob you off but if enough people complain then they might start listening.

Ok thanks for all your help and advice. I will do that