Newbie - what fish/ plants & question about cycling

[agnesf]

Have just got a 60l aquarium for DS (10) birthday with heater/ filter etc. We have got small grained gravel for the bottom and a couple of ornaments.

Have read all info about cycling and are keen to start but we are going on holiday in 2 weeks time so not sure what to do as won't be able to do anything that week. Should I leave it until we are back or ask neighbour to drop some fish food in every 2-3 days (we are away for a week).

Also what should I do about plants? Is it easiest to stick to fake once or should I go for live ones. If so which ones?

Finally - what fish? DS likes colourful ones and I think he'd really like 2 or 3 types but not sure what ones. Can someone make some suggestions for a good combo.

It might be easier to start the cycle once you get back. You could set up the tank before then and get it running if you like. If you do go down the live plants route then this will give them plenty of time to root.

There are loads of plants that are easy to grow and it's much nicer for the fish having real plants. Cryptocrynes are usually a good bet, they don't get too big and they don't need loads of light. I think most 60 litre tanks have a 15w bulb and that's plenty. You could also have a piece of bogwood with some java fern on it.

Fish choice depends on what sort of water you have. Some are pickier than others and need very specific conditions. If your water is close to neutral pH then that gives you more options. A water test kit will tell you everything you need to know (ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte, pH and hardness)

A 60 litre tank is perfect for a shoal of small fish. Shoaling fish need to be kept in groups of 6+. Something like neon tetras would do well in a tank that size, guppies are another option (go for an all male shoal or you'll get overrun!). There isn't really much space for more than one species in a 60 litre but if you had guppies then he could choose a few different colours, they are all the same species anyway.

Help! We bought a book which says you can calculate the no of fish based on surface area of your tank.

DS has done this and calculated that he can 12 * 5cm long fish in a tank which is 30cm by 60cm so is not impressed with my suggestion of a shoal of 6 guppies and has made a number of elaborate lists of pick'n' mix fish by length.

He has also been looking at the internet and lots of websites seem to have similar calculations of cm per cm sq.

Are these calculations misleading? I personally believe what you are saying and would rather have fewer happier fish than loads of unhappy ones.

Can you give me some good ammunition about why we should stick to a few and why having lots of different species is not a good idea. I can't really show him Mumsnet as don't want him to read my postings - maybe you can point us to a good fish website that I could show him.

Yes, they are misleading. There are tons of different ways of 'calculating' a stock list but there's no exact science. Some say 1" of fish per gallon, some say the length of the tank needs to be 6x the length of the fish, some use surface area- if you combine all these then you can get an idea of how many fish you can keep, but not an exact number.

Those methods only take into account adult size but there are so many variables like diet, temperament, fish personalities (yes, they have them!), fish activity level (some need loads of swimming space), spawning behaviours etc etc etc. It's nowhere near as simple as saying 'your tank is X size so you can have Y number of fish'.

Also if you find that your tank is coping well then there's always the option to add more fish in the future. Stocking too heavily at the start can cause a catalogue of problems.

I'll have a look and see if I can find any articles that might help you out.

Thanks! I might try the lets start with a few approach to see how we go.

Some articles would be lovely if its not too much trouble.

Here and here are some good posts about why stocking calculators don't always work (the second is about one in particular).

OK another question - now about lights. We have set up tank this weekend and planted plants but no fish yet.

Can someone explain about the lights. We have lots of windows in our house so have put tank in room which only gets direct sunlight in first thing in morning when curtains still closed. But room is still quite light.

So how long and when do we need to put on the aquarium light. Have read that actually fish don't need the lights its just the plants.

No, fish don't need lights if there is some daylight in the room, it does make the tank look nice though even if you don't have any real plants.

One bulb is enough for some live plants, as long as you pick the right ones then they'll be fine. I think my light's on for about 8 or 9 hours during the day and evening.

We have a 60ltr tank, we have 6 guppies ,4 tetras and a bristle nose pleco. The guppies are fun to watch (very playful and brightly coloured), the tetras dont do a lot tbh and the pleco hides a lot but is great to watch when he sneaks out. We only have plastic plants, some pebles and a cave.

Ok - we have been putting fish food in the tank every day for 2 weeks now and are using Tetra test 6 in 1 sticks to test the water but nothing seems to be happening. Every day the reading is no nitrates and no nitrites and the chlorine reading still seems to be in the range that they tell us to use aqua safe (ie something to neutralise it).

Surely this is not correct.

Are these test stick rubbish?

I've never had any luck with dipsticks but if there is any chlorine in the water then the tank won't cycle because it will be killing off all the good bacteria. You need an ammonia test kit if you're cycling a tank. I've never been sure what the point of having a chlorine test is, not sure why Tetra included it in their kit

Are you using aquasafe? Does your water company use chloramine to treat tap water?

The water has been in the tank with the filter on for about 4 weeks but we didn't start putting food in until 2 weeks ago as were on holiday so surely all the chloriney stuff has gone by now. We put loads of the chlorine neutralising chemical in (can't remember what it called).

Have read some bad reviews of these dipsticks since wrote last post so am off to get a better kit!

If you used a dechlorinator then it should be gone. I think there are still some dechlorinators that don't neutralise chloramine.

If you use household ammonia to cycle the tank then it's much easier because you can control the exact amount of ammonia (if you have too much ammonia then it can inhibit the cycle, not enough and it doesn't register on test kits). You can get a bottle of household ammonia on amazon for about a fiver and there are calculators online that tell you how much to put in.

OK so have bought a fancy kit with reagents. it is showing 0.6 for ammonia and nothing for nitrates/ nitrites.

Now am worrying about the chloramines thing - haven't got chlorine test in the kit we bought.

The whole thing is a bit tedious to be honest.

Yap, fishless cycling is boring as hell. Easiest way to find out about chloramine is to look on your water board website. I think they all use it now. What dechlorinator are you using?

Tried checking on water board website but it is really difficult to find out - no where does it say yes or no.

We used stress coat which does say it removes chloramines.

Do you think I should plop in some more Stress Coat. If so how much? Is it harmful if you use too much?

Stress coat should have done the trick- what does it say on the instructions?

Ok - so things have moved on. Added more stress coat and it all started happening so now we are well on the way with readings of ammonia < 0.6, nitrite now 0 (was 0.8 but going down) and nitrate - can't remember but not v high.

Can I now ask about filter changes & cleaning gravel etc.

Once I'm fully cycled presume I need to leave the existing filter in but what do I do about changing it? The box says every month but am totally confused as surely I will lose all my lovely bacteria this way.

Secondly - water and gravel cleaning. Do I need a gravel vacuum and how often do I change water. We have got a book and I did read all this when we first got it but mind is now blank and bamboozled with conflicting advice so a pointer to a good website would help.

Forgot to say - have Elite Stingray filter. Have just read instructions and says change one of pads once a month but do I need to wait for a month after the fish have been in?

Never ever change filter media unless it is literally falling apart. Yes, it says one month on the box, but that is just done by manufacturers so you are conned into buying. All the good bacteria that you are just building up are in those filter sponges, so if you replaced them you'd basically start again.

What to do once your tank is cycled (ammonia and nitrite dropping to 0 within 12 hours of dosing):

• have a 'qualifying week': continue adding ammonia just to make sure everything goes back to 0 in 12 hours
• then do a massive water change, something like 90% to get the nitrAtes to a low level
• add live plants if wanted
• add fresh, temperature adjusted, dechlorinated water
• get your fish :)

Once your fish are in, do weekly 25% or more water changes. Keep the filter media clean by washing them in tank water (this is very important, never in tap water), just basically get the muck off them. Again, never replace them and always use your tank water so you keep your good bacteria going.

Hope that helps. You will soon get into a routine and it will go easy as pie.

Ok - so me again. I have done more tests on aquarium. Now have ammonia

Do you use the API testing kit? If yes, you need to bang the crap out of the bottle to make it work. Shake, shake, bang on the table and shake even more. Put on a good song and bang away to the rhythm. Try it and hopefully you will see nitrates.

Hi again. We have finally got some fish.

4 guppies & 2 otos. They've been in for about 24 hours and everyone is looking happy, swimming around or stuck to things (depending on who they are).

Have question about feeding the otos. I have tried them with algal wafers but they don't seem to notice them even if I stick them in front of their noses. Put one in about 15 mins ago and now the guppies are eating it .

I think there is quite a bit of algae in the tank as we had it cycling for about 10 weeks in the end so there seems to be brown furry stuff on various surfaces. But what if they eat it all up. We also have lots of real plants.

Any tips on getting them to eat stuff.

also a follow up on our water problems (see above re hard to get rid of chlorine). When we changed the tank water before getting the fish we had no problem getting rid of the chlorine so not sure if we just picked a bad day the last time. Also this time we used Aqua Safe instead of Stress Coat but actually even when I tested water from tap it was showing no chlorine anyway. Weird.