Help needed with goldfish :(

[cleas]

Hi,
Getting ready for a flaming here really but am honestly trying to do my best of a bad situation... This is a long story so hope you can stick with me.
I shall begin by admitting that I am a novice.
My Father bought a Biorb 30L for my daughter (to keep at their house) but it has been left to me to do the 'caring' and I am a bit clueless when it comes to fish. Anyway, he bought it at an independent pet shop who (I now know) should not have but did actually sell him 5 fantail goldfish to go in it. They were sold at the same time as the tank and so it was unfortunately cycled with the fish in it. If I'd known then what I know now I would have returned them straight away.
Anyway, cycling took quite some time (as you would expect) but finally achieved lovely clear water. In the meantime though we managed to lose 2 fish. Then one of the remaining fish started attacking and damaging the tail of another so I (again stupidly) rushed out and bought a kids starter tank and took home the injured one in a misguided attempt to save him. Another of the biorb fish died in the meantime but the remaining fish has seemed reasonably happy now for the last 5 months despite having to change the filter almost weekly at times as the filter is practically useless. The rescued fish is still living with me but the tank/filter I bought is also hopeless. I tried reintroducing it to the biorb but the fighting continued so I'm back where I was.
Soooo, the question is, what should I do? Shall I just scrap the kids tank and get hold of something decent for 'my' fish and leave him to it (if so, what can you recommend?) or should I get a decent large tank for both fish (who perhaps would get on better in a bigger tank??) and leave the biorb for plants and shrimps or something similar?
I'm feeling so guilty as I appear to have two quite high-maintenence fish (mainly due to their accommodation) and neither seem very happy. Overall though I'm still quite angry that my Dad was so badly advised in the first place. Help please.

Oh, don't feel guilty :( Those utter bastards at the pet shop selling 5 goldies for a 30 litre biorb! I hope your DD wasn't too upset at losing some of her fish.

Right, the first thing you need to do is get them in a decent sized container with a good filter because children's starter tanks are also not big enough for goldfish. This can either be a bigger tank or if you can't get one right away then a large plastic box will do (make sure it is food-grade plastic, the Really Useful ones you can get at Staples are suitable). This is a guide to how big goldfish get and how much space they need. They should live happily together given the space they need.

Second hand tanks are usually fine, lots of bargains on ebay and freecycle or try a car boot sale. You'll need a decent filter so if you can save money on the tank then do.

Don't 'change' the filter every week, it is full of really important good bacteria. Just rinse it out in some water that you've taken from the tank. This explains more about the nitrogen cycle, it's so important to know about this for keeping fish healthy.

The biorb would be fine for a few shrimp. Plants don't tend to do so well because of the substrate but you could get a little bit of bogwood with some java fern growing on it and it would look great with a few cherry shrimp. Biorbs usually need a bit of modding to make them work properly (and save you some money!)- you can bin the white and black granules and just replace them with more sponges, then instead of replacing it once a month or whatever it is they tell you, you can rinse it in tank water like I described before.

Hope that helps a bit. Don't feel bad about how things started, so many people get into fish the same way (I did!) by being given awful advice. You obviously care a lot about your fish so don't beat yourself up :)

Thanks EauRouge
That's the plan then. I'm to get a larger tank to house the two fantails. Would a 40L tank do or should I try larger? I'm going for a 'normal' type tank with a good filter and avoiding the Biorb style altogether. Once the fish are in the new tank I'll get some shrimps for the orb - shame not to use it since my Dad paid so much for it in the first place. He was genuinely sad when I told him about this earlier. I am quite angry with the shop for misleading him. I'm all for supporting the small, independent shops that remain on the high street but selling fish that you know are unlikely to survive is plain irresponsible.

Ooh. Did you click on the link I posted? 40 litres isn't even big enough for 1 goldfish. They get very, very big and make a lot of mess so you'd need something around 150 litres minimum for a couple of fantails. They get around 8 inches long (they don't grow to the size of their tank) and they can live for about 10-15 years.

Could you complain to the shop? They won't improve if no one ever complains. There's some info on the RSPCA website that would back you up. Not even Reef One (the people that make biorbs) recommend goldfish for their 30 litres. Actually the RSPCA does not recommend tanks of fewer than 45 litres but there are loads on sale- there's no consumer protection when it comes to aquatics :(

Sorry, was going to get round to reading the link this evening. Have slapped myself on the hand on your behalf.
Ok. So first of all I need to make some space for a LARGE tank then. Just want the poor things to be happy.
Do you really think they'll get on provided I give them that much space?
Thanks again

Yes, goldfish are normally very peaceful. Aggressive behaviour is pretty common when fish are too cramped. They do make lovely pets once they have the space they need, they will eat from your hand and swim up to see you when you come in the room.

I'm doing a little online aquarium shopping and seeing very small tanks (14l etc) everywhere and they all seem to be marketed with 3 or more goldfish in them.
There must be some seriously uphappy goldfish around
I think given my budget I'm going to have to find a second hand tank.

If you're on freecycle then it's worth asking on there, there are always loads of tanks on my local one.

I know what you mean about the way tanks are marketed, it's shameful :( They are so often recommended to beginners and children too, it's so sad to think of all those children whose pets are dying because some manufacturer wants to make money.

Deffently look on e-bay and free cycle. I have just picked up a tank for £3 at the tip (but was only a 40ltr), i got my 60ltr on ebay with a pump and heater for £50 (also came with a stand which we are not using).

Was in pets at home last week and they still sale the tiny starter tanks . We made the same mistake when we started, we were sold a tiny tank, told to cycle it for 24 hours and were then sold 3 guppies to go in it, we lost one guppy but luckily i bought the bigger tank in time to save the others.

There are so many tiny tanks on ebay. I came across this one the other day. Shocking!

OMG and theres people biding on it, poor fish, i found a tank on e-bay the other day that had fish with it, the water was so green that you couldn't see them and the seller says something like 'comes with fish but not sure what they are' (probably because he hasn't seen them for years).

That's the same tank that the pet shop sold to my Dad with 5 fantail goldfish
Thank you everyone for the help. I'm getting a new tank this weekend that will hopefully be a much nicer place for them to live in.