Help please!

[MetalSian]

So we have had our fish for just over a week.

I don't want a flaming because we got them before I came onto this part of mumsnet and I have realised that so many things were wrong with it!

We have a 19l tank, with two little fish. A 'small' (or so pets at home says) oranda and a Blackmoor. I have a filter that is on all the time, and an air pump I put on a few hours fo the day.
I cannot lie that I have fallen in love with the blackmoor.

But this morning I have come in and he looks almost dead.
He has no energy to swim and was stuck to the filter.
I turn the filter off and he just floats around at the top of the tank, he is still breathing but by th elooks of it it won't be long

Is there anything I can do?
What do I do if he dies?

The other fish seems absolutely fine but has always been more active than the Blackmoor, who often just hides in the ornaments.
Yesterday the Blackmoor got stuck in one of the ornaments, we have a bubble blowing starfish thing? It had fallen over, he swam inside it and got stuck.
We got home from work and college and thought he had disappeared, Luckily I saw his tail and we managed to get him out.

Yes, Pets at Home are shocking and they have a 2 week guarantee or something but I can't see myself going back in there and getting another one if he dies.

Sorry this is all over the place, I am worried.
I can't believe I am so attached to one fish after a week and a half!
I didn't even think I liked fish.

Help? Thanks in advance!

Hello, I won't flame you because this is approximately the 7 billionth time I've heard this problem. Fecking Pets at Home!

Right, make yourself a cuppa. Or a gin....

Firstly, your tank is too small for goldfish. Way, way, way too small. Goldfish get massive, they do not grow to the size of your tank. Orandas especially get huge, so P@H are talking out of their arses- your oranda is small because he's a baby! Orandas will get to 8-10 inches, black moors slightly smaller. This is a good guide for fish sizes and requirements.

Secondly, you need to switch your filter back on right away. The filter will be reducing the level of harmful ammonia in the water. You'll also need to do very large water changes every day for the next few weeks. Get a water testing kit like this one so you can monitor the levels.

Your tank wasn't properly prepared when you put the fish in (bet P@H didn't mention this either... ) so you'll need to keep a really close eye on the water quality over the next few weeks This article explains the basics.

For now I think the best thing to do would be to move them to a larger tank or container as soon as possible. A food-grade plastic storage box will do temporarily. Get them in one of those, get the filter running (you might need a bigger filter, what filter do you have at the moment?) and get on top of water changes so that the water quality improves.

Hope that doesn't come as too much of a shock

Its not too much of a shock.
I have been reading on here since having them and knew how terrible pets at home are.
We only had the tank running for a week before the fish went in so felt quilty when I found out that was bad anyway!

ANd fantastic! I just text my DP to say what was happening and he said, 'Yeah I had to save him twice last night and this morning so he is probably going to die' -.-

I don't have any bigger containers like you are saying, just toy boxes.
Need to get searching.

I wish DS's nan hadn't decided he should have some fish =[.

Thanks for the advice!

I have got a secind small tank that is quite old, given to us y DS's Nan.
Would seperating them into the two help? Until I can get a bigger tank?
It probably about the same size as the other but tall rather than long (worse I know).

It would help a bit if you had two filters. Is there a Staples near you? They do food-grade plastic storage boxes.

Not a staples for atleast 30 miles, and I don't have access to a car until DP gets home.

I hate Pets at Home.
Givin incorrect information is just cruel for the animals =[.

A lot of aquatic stores give out inaccurate or out-dated info. The cold hard truth is that they make more money that way because they can sell you replacement fish, medications etc. Plus how many people would even buy a goldfish if they knew that it needed a 30 gallon tank minimum? Not many! Most goldfish keepers start like you, buying a small tank, falling in love with a fish and then going 'oh bugger' once they realise what they've got themselves into

If you've got a local freecycle, buy and sell group on FB or anything like that then you might have some luck getting a bigger tank there.

Oh and you could complain to P@H if you like, the RSPCA recommend at least 10 gallons for fish see here.

The Blackmoor has died.
Didn't think I would even say I had cried over a fish dying.

I rang pets at home and pretty much had a go at them.
They are going to take everything back, tank, ornaments and the Oranda and refund us.

Definately won't be buying anything from them again and will wait to see if I can get a much larger tank to start again properly in the future.
Thanks for your help Eau!

I'm sure yo will hear from me again when we decide to get a bigger one.

Oh, that's such a shame :( Good on you for giving them a bollocking, I'm glad you're getting a refund. They get so many complaints about those tiny tanks, maybe they will start to reconsider selling them.

Let me know when you're getting a new set up and I'll see if I can offer any advice. Have a good Christmas :)

My almost MIL has bought me and DH and 2 foot tropical tank for christmas.
I think she says it has everything but gravel.

And she has one fish with it... a Silver Dollar.
But on looking it up they are normally in a shoal.
She has it in her tank atm but it is definately too small so I am going to have to have it in ours.

Any fish you would recommend Eau for a 2 foot tropical tank?
I will be doing a fishless cycle before adding any fish, if MIL will keep the Silver Dollar for that long.

Will be buyig a water test kit and everything asap.
Seeing as Pets at Home refunded my £50.00 for everything I bought there, I have some money to spare on making this one right.

DP*, not DH ;P, getting carried away!

Brilliant, a 2ft tank is a great size. Not too big that it's a pain to clean out but still lots of choice of what you can put in there.

There are lots of fish I could recommend for a 2ft tank but a silver dollar isn't one of them! They get huge and they do need to be kept in a shoal. If you took it to an aquatic shop they should rehome it for you or you might be able to swap it for something else.

Fish-wise you should stick to fish that stay smaller than 2". A small shoal of small fish works really well. I would stick to just one species. The choice of fish is dependent on your water conditions, some fish like hard, alkaline water and some need soft, acidic water. If your water is extreme one way or the other then you need to be careful choosing fish. If your water is closer to neutral then that gives you a bit more choice.

If you leave some tap water to stand for 24 hours and then test, that should give you an accurate idea. It's normal for pH to fluctuate a bit during the cycle. Once you've got pH and hardness readings then you can start looking at fish. The best thing to do probably is just see what you like the look of and then see if it would be happy in your water. I can help out if you want, I love stocking other people's tanks

I need to find a decent aquatic shop nearby... not going to pets at home again!

Maidenhead aquatics are usually pretty good.

We have th new tank now.
It is around 45 litres.

Need to give it a good clean though as it was second hand.
The almost MIL was very offended when I said about giving the Silver Dollar to a fish shop so I don't think I have much choice but to keep him for a bit.

Dp really wants a Pleco. But they grow really big don't they?

45 litres, that's an improvement from 19! 45 litres can just about house a shoal of very small fish, or a single male betta (very pretty and easy to keep!). There are some plecs that are larger than others (common plecs can get to 24"!) none really small enough for a 45 litre though.

Not sure how scary your MiL is but a silver dollar really won't be too pleased about being kept alone in a small tank. It can cause them permanent damage. If your MiL won't accept that then would it be an option to rehome it and just say it died?

That sounds like a plan!

She is bonkers, she used to work in a pet shop and told me we could have over 10 fish in the new one 0.o.

I feel very sorry for the silver dollar.
She bought the tank second hand and it came with black sludge about 2 inches in the bottom, as she was cleaning it she scooped him up and a pleco too!
He had been lying on his side to stay in the water... some people -.-

Anything you can recommend for me to clean the tank before I start my fishless cycle?

Ad we have a maidenhead aquatic about 35 miles from here o plan to go there to get the fish onc the cycle is done.

It's best to avoid chemicals if you can, or to use a really weak mix so that there's no residue knocking around. White vinegar is good for getting rid of water marks if you live in a hardwater area. You can use bleach in a 1:10 solution but give it a really good rinse afterwards!

If you are not planning to re-use the gravel/sand then non-toxic non-dyed playsand makes a good cheapo substrate for fish tanks. If you're planning on real plants then you can put a layer of fertilising stuff underneath. Ebay is a great place to get deals on fishy stuff, especially if the nearest decent shop is 35 miles away.

I might be able to recommend another shop if you PM me which county you're in.