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Films

The Substance

149 replies

SocksAndTheCity · 20/09/2024 22:07

I saw this a few weeks ago at a festival but it's out on general release today and I'll be going again on Monday - I thought it was terrific, if a bit long. Has anybody else been for a look? It's pretty squishy and definitely not for everyone.

Demi Moore is just stunning (as is Margaret Qualley), Dennis Quaid is absolutely grotesque and the end is mental 🤣

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VictoriaSpungecake · 29/09/2024 12:16

@ReadWithScepticism You ask "Is the Substance trying to say that an older professional woman cheated by sexism has a repressed desire to perform the sickly little-girl-sugar-daddy persona that she birthed? That deep down we are all prepared to sacrifice life as a real woman in order to become the objectification of the male gaze"

I don't personally think this is what The Substance is grappling with. For me, the casting of Demi Moore is instructive (and genius). She used to be at the top of her game and partly that came from being young and (to many people) beautiful. That youthful beauty cannot be sustained. Her career therefore changed as she got older and other more youthful beauties came along to take her place. This is reflected in the cyclical structure of the film. The implication is that Susan too will be replaced by another more youthful version, and on and on.

Demi Moore has obviously had a lot of work done, and works at staying thin, maintaining a specific physical aesthetic, even though Hollywood doesn't value that in older women.

For me, the film isn't saying that "we are all prepared to sacrifice life as real woman" etc but that institutions like Hollywood discard us and that we are victims of the male gaze. This is represented as a grotesque extreme in this movie because that is in keeping with the genre, but nevertheless it touches on a general truth of female subjectivity. It is certainly true of my experience as an older woman. At the point that you have accrued the wisdom of experience you become redundant (it's true for men too, but may play out in a different way). I even identify with the fierce cruelty of some younger women towards older women. I don't know if they intend it, but there is sometimes a gleeful recognition that the world belongs to them now and that the older woman should jog on.

Oh, and the emptiness and isolation the film captured was great because it suggested to me that behind the illusion of glitz and glamour of Hollywood is a more depressing reality of loneliness, isolation and self doubt. She has no friends because if people got to know the real her it would blow the glamour because she is after all just another person (this isn't explicit in the film but is based on the couple of "stars" of my acquaintance. Most of us know of at least one don't we because these people went to school with us or grew up in our neighbourhoods. They are real people).

I am very much enjoying this conversation, by the way. My old brain cells are sparking into life.

Gensola · 02/10/2024 22:09

I saw this last night and thought it was one of the worst films I’ve ever seen. The plot was weak and made no sense at all - given that the “other self” is in complete control during her seven days and Elisabeth didn’t have any awareness of that life, which was clear in her shock at various events once she was in control again, what would be the possible benefit to anyone of doing this? You’re not living the ideal life, someone else is.

It also absolutely fell victim to the stereotypes it was trying to satirise - aging portrayed as horrifying and grotesque and humiliating. Demi Moore and the other lead constantly naked when there was no need for it.

The gore and violence were completely over the top and disgusting, that may be “the point” but I found it revolting and I don’t think it was anything more than immature shock tactics.

It lost its way completely toward the end and should have been cut short at least 30 mins before it ended. Honestly would give it 0/10 and only didn’t leave because I was there with a friend and I thought it was mean to leave her on her own.

FatArse123 · 03/10/2024 14:53

I saw it on Tuesday and thought t was brilliant. Shocking, sad and at times quite funny. I thought the very final scene with the star was genius.

VictoriaSpungecake · 05/10/2024 13:37

Gensola · 02/10/2024 22:09

I saw this last night and thought it was one of the worst films I’ve ever seen. The plot was weak and made no sense at all - given that the “other self” is in complete control during her seven days and Elisabeth didn’t have any awareness of that life, which was clear in her shock at various events once she was in control again, what would be the possible benefit to anyone of doing this? You’re not living the ideal life, someone else is.

It also absolutely fell victim to the stereotypes it was trying to satirise - aging portrayed as horrifying and grotesque and humiliating. Demi Moore and the other lead constantly naked when there was no need for it.

The gore and violence were completely over the top and disgusting, that may be “the point” but I found it revolting and I don’t think it was anything more than immature shock tactics.

It lost its way completely toward the end and should have been cut short at least 30 mins before it ended. Honestly would give it 0/10 and only didn’t leave because I was there with a friend and I thought it was mean to leave her on her own.

What did your friend think?

Gensola · 05/10/2024 13:50

She also thought it was the most disgusting/shocking thing she’s seen and very hard to watch, but we both agree it generated a lot of discussion afterwards which is good and also she’s a new friend and it was something of a bonding experience to see it together 😁

Tomorrowisyesterday · 05/10/2024 17:24

I thought it was brilliant. Best film I've seen in ages.

Twistybranch · 05/10/2024 17:46

ReadWithScepticism · 28/09/2024 23:10

Grin No, I'm an oldie (old enough to have loved The Fly when it came out) and I was amazed by how disappointing the substance was. I love a bit of body horror but this just didn't seem to work, in loads of ways.

Just to pick one thing that annoyed me, what was the point of the Substance if, instead of making her look younger, it just caused her to have to give away half her life to a different, younger person? I thought at first they would be one consciousness in two bodies, but they were just two different people.

It would have been better for her if some random girl scouted by Dennis Quaid had got her job. Then at least she wouldn't have had to gestate her rival.

It turned much of the film into the old sexist cliche that a desire to be beautiful makes women hate one another and incapable of solidarity. Took the pressure off the menz.

But more annoyingly it was just illogical.

But even more annoyingly, the horror was just lame, as if going over the top with blood and battery etc was all it took to create an interesting shock.

And the scene where there were lots of messy dishes and food remains in the flat? It seemed so much of a non sequitur. It wasn't till after I left the cinema that it struck me the only reason for that scene was that it pointlessly echoes the food-messy state of Jess Goldblum's flat in the Fly. That had some sort of rationale, though, because flies love sugar and all that.

And the monster at the end just looked like it was echoing the Elephant Man. All so disappointing.

The elephant man is what is it was based on, according to the lead prosthetics artist

Also find it interesting that the female director pushed Demi and Margaret quite far when filming, and others felt they had to intervene on their behalf. Make up artists stepped in a couple of times. Had this been a male director, I think questions would have been raised.

There also becomes a point when satire about the male gaze can become the exact thing it was meant to mock and condone

This film isn’t as clever as it thinks it is

Namerchangee · 07/10/2024 09:37

CheeseAndPineappleHedgehog · 22/09/2024 18:16

I saw this today and really liked it - Demi was great. It lost the plot a bit at the end though - it made me laugh (not sure if that was the intention?!)

I absolutely howled with laughter at the end! What an absolutely brilliant, bonkers film. Demi Moore was absolutely fantastic in it. A revelation. More of this please!

McSilkson · 08/10/2024 02:19

SocksAndTheCity · 24/09/2024 13:09

I saw it again last night (and it was better still for not being the fifth film I'd seen that day); there were a lot of women in the audience and we all laughed at the funny bits Smile

My take on the way Sue's fitness show was filmed is that the makers no longer felt the need to even pretend it was about fitness once Elizabeth was gone, and could just get straight on with what they wanted, so the mega-sexualised pouting, bum thrusting and crotch shots in tiny leotards showed it was only about the male gaze all along. I think it was meant to be a bit uncomfortable because it makes the audience participate in it too.

There were definitely a lot of bums, but I also noticed that the end credits had an entire section for Margaret Qualley's prosthetic breasts 😁

Ah, they were fake! That makes sense; I thought they looked a little large for her frame and kinda... off.

I thought Sue's show was utterly and deliberately grotesque. A lot of female choreography in popular music videos, fitness routines, etc., ultimately derives from the sex industry/strip club, and that has been the case for at least 20 years. Fargeat completely did away with any pretensions that this was anything other than softcore porno, and the extreme close-ups and OTT nature of everything revealed the grotesquerie for what it was.

The film was also quite brutal to the "gazing" males, from Elizabeth's neighbour making a fool of himself simpering over Sue and making creepy comments about "private lessons" (and deluding himself he had a chance with her), to the dupe Sue preys on hooks up with ("you're even more beautiful than before!"), who's revealed to be a total asshole to a woman he's not fucking, to the drooling, faceless "shareholders", to Dennis Quaid's utterly groteque and quite literally slobbering (at the dinner table) boss. In fact, I don't think there's a single sympathetic male character in the film. The closest thing would be the slightly pathethic and embarassing admirer of Elizabeth. But she's, frankly, way out of his league, and it's a reflection of how low her self-esteem has fallen and her need for validation when she agrees to a date with him (and then can't even bring herself to go on it :😟).

VictoriaSpungecake · 08/10/2024 09:21

I've seen it twice now. I went with a 19 year old female relative who absolutely loved it. I think young women need to see this radical outrage in films.

I wish the public had a say about who gets nominated for Oscars as I would nominate the director and Demi Moore.

While we're at it. I think the Oscars should introduce new categories (I know it would be a longer show, but, hey...) I would have best newcomer (which could be for acting, writing, directing, design - whatever). I would also introduce a one-off ceremony where only women were nominated (might get studios to pull their finger out their arse and support more female artists).

SocksAndTheCity · 08/10/2024 15:51

@McSilkson We all roared laughing when the slimy neighbour came out to try another crap line on what he thought was Sue, and Elizabeth (on her way to collect her final Substance package) snarled at him to fuck off 🤣

The more time passes I think Demi Moore could get an Oscar nomination; so many people are talking about it and I love that even people who hated the film are still talking about it. While I think Angelina Jolie will win it (or Saoirse Ronan if not), even a nomination in a big category for a film like The Substance would be massive.

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McSilkson · 08/10/2024 16:07

@SocksAndTheCity I was laughing at him in his every scene. Fargeat absolutely skewered men like that.

category12 · 08/10/2024 22:57

I really liked it.

You think they can't possibly push the body horror any further, but they keep on pushing.. 😂

Motnight · 12/10/2024 20:46

I saw this today. I want to see it again as I am not entirely sure what I thought of it. I have a feeling that I missed the message of the film.The last 20 minutes is just horrendous viewing!

AutumnalCosiness · 12/10/2024 21:56

ReadWithScepticism · 27/09/2024 23:10

Oh my god just seen it and it was bad. I mean, so bad.

I can't even.

I was embarrassed to be in the cinema with it.

If that was satire so is a whoopee cushion.

A whoopee cushion filled with blood.

Ha! My friend was telling me how much she hated this film earlier. Interesting to see such different opinions here....

SocksAndTheCity · 12/10/2024 23:44

I've been trying to find out when Mubi will have it on to stream, since I'm due a 7 day free trial.

No word yet and possibly because it continues doing really well in cinemas - it was still at number 4 last week even though it's been out for three weeks now 😀

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VictoriaSpungecake · 13/10/2024 09:12

SocksAndTheCity · 12/10/2024 23:44

I've been trying to find out when Mubi will have it on to stream, since I'm due a 7 day free trial.

No word yet and possibly because it continues doing really well in cinemas - it was still at number 4 last week even though it's been out for three weeks now 😀

I am pleased that it is doing so well.

The Substance is great - its grand guignol messiness and in-yer-face grotesquery. Love it.

offyoujollywelltrot · 13/10/2024 19:37

This film is absolutely phenomenal. Honestly I was enthralled the entire time.

SisterAgatha · 13/10/2024 19:44

I really loved it. We haven’t had a film like this in a long time, it’s something I haven’t seen since the early 90’s.

Probably the performance of Demi Moores career.

SisterAgatha · 13/10/2024 19:48

I also felt it had messages about the parasitic nature of motherhood, which is why they each had sentience but remained one. But I can’t really articulate it.

casapenguin · 13/10/2024 19:50

I really enjoyed this film! read a couple of reviews that has the impression Elizabeth/Sue don’t have any awareness of each others lives but I didn’t see if like that at all - I read it as they DO remember what the other has done but they don’t stop their behaviour regardless. So Sue remembers that she regretted misusing the substance as Elizabeth but she doesn’t care while she is Sue. It’s like with so many things in our lives, use sun cream so you do get cancer later, don’t drink so much tonight because you’ll regret it in the morning, you’ll feel sick if you eat that whole packet of crisps etc etc. to me it was making the point that unless you can find ‘the balance’ you are always going to keep making poor decisions part of you regrets at a later date.

CandyLeBonBon · 13/10/2024 20:24

My interest is piqued now! I'll have to work out where to watch it now!

Epli · 14/10/2024 11:59

Is it actually scary?

NooNakedJacuzziness · 14/10/2024 12:17

It's not jump scary but there's a LOT of blood and, um, body parts especially in the last 20 minutes

SocksAndTheCity · 14/10/2024 12:18

Epli · 14/10/2024 11:59

Is it actually scary?

No. Parts of it are gory (hence the body horror tag), but it's mostly a black comedy with a bit of sci fi Smile

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