Quo Vadis, Aida? film /Bosnian war - Devastating

[Middleagedandcreaking]

Has anyone watched Quo Vadis, Aida? It's on Netflix.

I don't know whether I'm posting about the film or the massacre that is the subject of the film. I know so little about the Bosnian wars, although I do remember the news at the time. I also remember visiting some memorials in Croatia some years ago and reading a little then.

It feels so close to home and unimaginable that was 1995 and yet obviously we have war again so close. I find it strange I don't know more about the war/s.

Great film but devastating to watch.

Such a heartbreakingly sad film. I’ve been to Bosnia it’s a very beautiful mountainous country but still lives in that shadow of the war, lots and poverty and corruption caused by a political system (a tripartite government) which has been in place since the war ended in 95. That conflict was pretty complicated and very bloody I found myself reading a lot to get my head around it and why it happened. The country is now divided into two a federation (Croats and Bosniaks) and Republika Srpska which is Serbian, the leader of the latter has close ties with Putin.

If you’re interested in learning more these are some good books.

The fall of Yugoslavia (Misha Glenny)
My War gone by, I miss it so (written by Anthony Lloyd who cut his teeth as a war correspondent during the conflict, it’s also very much about his addiction to Adrenalin of being in a war zone)
besieged life under fire on a sarajevo street (about real life living through the siege of Sarajevo)

It is complicated isn't it? I've been trying to have a read. Thank you very much for the recommendations. I would like to know more so will look these up. I imagine the shadow will remain for a long time. I'm not an expert but trauma from genocide must take generations to process.

Thanks for the recommendation.
I found Come and See (about WW2 in the Soviet Union) very harrowing, and I’m sure this will also be a worthwhile watch as it’s something that happened in many of our lifetimes, including my own, but seems so far removed from our modern political conversations here.

Have just read a couple of reviews, definitely sounds like one I will try thanks - if I can figure where to watch (when I've recovered!)

Depending on what you read you’ll get a different perspective (of course) but you have to go back to what happened in that region at least to WW2 (although really you need to go right back to the Ottoman Empire when parts of the Slavic population first converted to Islam) to understand the fears that nationalist politicians were able to stoke up for their political agendas. WW2 was absolutely brutal in the Balkans - have a look into the ustaše and jasenovac. Then under Tito in Yugoslavia there was period of stability, where the country occupied a unique position between the east and west, people had a better standard of living there compared with most other eastern countries apart from perhaps the GDR, religion was suppressed and botherhood and unity was the order of the day, and educational standards improved, so although there are religious elements to the conflict it seems it was actually more to do with politicians using identity as leverage. In the cities many Muslims (for example) were pretty secular and didn’t practice or observed practices such as not drinking alcohol. Sarajevo was actually pretty ethically mixed and there was quite a bit of mixed marriage between say Serbs and Croats or Serbs and Muslims. I think there was a definitely a divide between city and country populations. There was a higher level or education in the city populations and a larger part of the population favoured living in a ethically diverse way.

Some of the worst atrocities were in the country side. The demographic of the cities really changed after the war as many more devout Muslims from the east (places like srebrenica) moved into the cities like Sarajevo as refugees. It is beyond comprehension what they all went through sometimes at the hands of their former neighbours. Sarajevo suffered terribly too, its was under siege for nearly 4 years, its easy to see how it’s geographical position was taken advantage of as it sits in a valley surrounded by mountains so the aggressors were able to shell and snipe down into the city. There is a well known quote from Ratko Mladic to his men attacking the city which was to ‘shell them until they’re on the edge of madness’ the city was put through the most unrelenting cruelty. It could be argued this was to completely break the multi ethnic fabric of the city so that Croats, Muslims and Serbs could never live together again.

The Gleny book is very good but on the heavy side. There is a good documentary called the Death of Yugoslavia which may be a better way into the topic, it’s quite old now and has interviews with all key politicians involved who are mostly dead now. There’s a documentary called Romeo and Juliet in Sarajevo which is also very good but old and grainy quality which will give you an understanding of how it was for couples of mixed ethnicity relationships. Also a book called Blue bird by Vesna Maric she came to the U.K. as a teenage refugee from Mostar. It a human story of going through that experience, it’s moving and funny at points and isn’t a long. Helps contextualise what was happening here at the time of the war there.

My interest in all this started around the time of the Brexit ref here and there some very interesting parallels about the identity politics, nationalism and the breakup of a bigger country.

Thanks for writing this. Interesting to read, you've clearly researched a lot. I'm going to try the easier Anthony Lloyd book option first thank you.

Years ago (20 years+) I watched a film about 3 men from Sarajevo who were on the Yugoslavia Olympic shooting team together, and best mates. One was a Bosnian Serb, one a Bosnian Muslim and one a Bosnian Croatian. They all got trap with their families in the seige of Sarajevo and ended up snipers on opposing forces.

It's the most I have ever cried watching a film, it was harrowing.

Thank you @RIPWalter . It looks like two films fit the description. One called Shot through the heart and Once Brothers (documentary) - about to watch this one thanks.

I would recommend Love Thy Neighbour by Peter Maass.

And film-wise Men Don’t Cry.

Yes, that's the one, well done for finding it. I will have to download it and rewatch.

BBC tv series called Warriors from the peacekeepers point of view really stuck in my mind too

In case you're not familiar with it, No Bravery, by James Blunt from his time serving in Kosovo

There are children standing here
Arms outstretched into the sky
Tears drying on their face
He has been here
Brothers lie in shallow graves
Fathers lost without a trace
A nation blind to their disgrace
Since he's been here

And I see no bravery
No bravery in your eyes anymore
Only sadness
And I see no bravery
No bravery in your eyes anymore
Only sadness
Only sadness

Houses burnt beyond repair
The smell of death is in the air
A woman weeping in despair says
"He has been here"
Tracer lighting up the sky
It's another families' turn to die
A child afraid to even cry out says
"He has been here"

And I see no bravery
No bravery in your eyes anymore
Only sadness
And I see no bravery
No bravery in your eyes anymore
Only sadness
Only sadness

There are children standing here
Arms outstretched into the sky
But no one asks the question why
He has been here
Old men kneel to accept their fate
Wives and daughters cut and raped
A generation drenched in hate
Says, "He has been here"

And I see no bravery
No bravery in your eyes anymore
Only sadness
And I see no bravery
No bravery in your eyes anymore
Only sadness
Only sadness

It is complicated, and you will get all sorts of versions of the history from all sides in that region. I remember having a happy childhood in Yugoslavia with many friends and family from all over the republic: Bosnia, Serbia, Slovenia, Macedonia… I was a child but it felt jovial and still remember having to do the national anthem at the beginning of each school day. That changed quickly when the Serb forces attacked my city, and we had to hide in our neighbour's basement. I still remember the smell of it and the noise - alarm alerting us to the air strikes. What followed were years of misery but unity and nationalism. We were lucky. My family and friends weren’t killed. We had many refugees and many of those moved to Germany and Australia. I sometimes wonder what their lives look like now and do they remember their time staying with us. I left more than 22 years ago, and my country joined the EU over that time. Life is better there, and people tell me they moved on from the war. Many Serbs are now working there, and many are holidaying. But apart from Slovenia, the other parts of Yugoslavia are still unstable. I often read about what’s happening in Bosnia and Serbia. Both places are still impoverished, so it is not unexpected that the ultranationalist is popular there. But it would help if you remembered that the Serbs were and still are connected to Russia - religion etc., and recently more connected to China. And after the war and being snubbed by the west for committing war crimes, they had nobody else to turn to. Whilst I still carry hatred in my heart for what they did in the interest of stability of the region, I
wish for them to become a prosperous and stable country with a content nation. I really do