Mary Queen of Scots

[chemenger]

Saw this yesterday, what a great film. Not a laugh a minute, in fact really no laughs at all. Both women are shown as real people, really interesting portrayal of them as trapped in their destiny.

I was so looking forward to seeing this film. Then I saw the trailer with Mary's fake Scottish accent and it has totally put me off too. Why, why. why - if there has to be any accent at all (my preference would be none) then it should be French!

The BBC's Gunpowder Treason and Plot from the early 00s cast a French actress as Mary and is probably the closest a film has ever come to depicting her real accent.

Thanks QueenoftheAndals
Now to my other question- why did Elizabeth not ensure she had an heir after her father's obsession with it ?

That is a question that has vexed historians for centuries!

I think the only way Elizabeth could secure her throne was to play off one prospective heir supplier against another. Then she just ran out of time.

Some historians have suggested she was likely not fertile anyway (I seem to recall something about very infrequent periods) so she might not have wanted to weaken her position but putting her fertility to the test.

If Mary Queen of Scots was properly bilingual, then surely she would have spoken Scots without a French accent?

This was the Mary I mentioned upthread, French actress Clemence Poesy.

But in the new movie it looks like they keep Mary young and beautiful to the end, whereas the actress used in was probably a more accurate depiction looks-wise of Mary at the end of her life.

I would think that knowing her father killed her mother may have put Elizabeth off marriage!

Just bumping to let my fellow Mary fans know that the Vanessa Redgrave/Glenda Jackson is on Film 4 today! Also has eyebrow twitching inaccuracies, like Elizabeth and Mary arguing in a random wood plus Timothy Dalton wearing what appears to be a Korean sheet mask but I do love this film.

I like that film - completely inaccurate but the two lead actresses are excellent. And how gorgeous was Timothy Dalton? He really was a very good actor - in Lion in Winter he's only about 21 but totally holds his own against the likes of Hepburn and o'toole.

I’d be tempted to go see it but not sure if I’d find the inaccuracies annoying.

Same - but I may have to go alone as DH says he can't cope with me frothing about it being all wrong like I did in the awful Keira Knightly version of Anna Karenina.

I think Saoirse Ronan does a good Scots accent and she is Irish too, not that that should enhance her accent . But she is very good at accents .; Have you seen her in Ladybird?

But presumably it’s based (like most films and tv treatments about Mary Q of S and Eliz) in part on the Schiller play, which imagines a meeting between them. No, it didn’t happen, but as they both spent so much time imagining and second-guessing and fearing one another, and were two women in a male-dominated world, there’s a poetic truth to imagining them meeting.

I saw Phyllida Law’s brilliant Mary Stuart with Harriet Walter as E and Janet McTeer as M on the London stage years back, and that remains my ‘real’ version.

why did Elizabeth not ensure she had an heir after her father's obsession with it ?

She didn't want to marry because of the disaster that her sister Mary's marriage had been, and the lack of suitable candidates. She didn't want to name Mary QoS as her heir as that would give ideas to Catholic conspirators, who didn't need any encouragement. The alternatives were the Grey sisters, and they predeceased her anyway.

I second the recommendation of the Lymond chronicles.

There are so many theories as to why Elizabeth didn't have an heir.

While she was the queen, she couldn't marry who she wanted to. During those sexist times, it was expected that women would obey their husbands. Any man Elizabeth married would have tried to assert himself above her, and she, nevermind her council, would have been dead against that. Several men tried to marry her to get their hands on the English throne, including her sister's husband and her stepmother's husband.

Next, there is a strong belief she was in love with Robert Dudley. The Dudley family had a bit of a dodgy past, and the council were not keen on him being king consort in any shape or form. Plus he was married, and his wife died in very mysterious circumstances. If Elizabeth had done what Mary Queen of Scots had done, and married an unsuitable, scandalous man, she would have lost her throne and she knew it.

Let's not forget, Elizabeth's claim to the throne was not a strong one. While she was the daughter of Henry VIII, many viewed her as illegitimate for one reason or another. Henry VIII annuled his marriage to Anne Boleyn, while the catholics never recognised Henry VIII's divorce to Catherine of Aragon and marriage to Anne in the first place.

In the end, Henry VIII did put Mary Tudor and Elizabeth back in the line of succession after Edward, probably because he thought Edward would live to produce heirs himself. But Edward died at 15, leaving the throne to his cousin Jane Grey rather than his sister Mary (he didn't want England to go back to catholicism). So it's no wonder some saw Mary Queen of Scots as the true queen, seeing as her parentage and claim to her own throne was undisputed.

Thank you.

Mary Stuart was French. Her mum was French She grew up in France speaking French. Her grandmother on her dad's side was Margaret Tudor, Lizzie Tudor's anglo-Welsh aunt.

The Big Question about the relationship between the cousins is about the death warrant, which Elizabeth signed and then said she never meant to.

This is either evidence of her being bullied by her 'prime minister' William Cecil, or a piece of political gymnastics on her part to absolver her from the crime of regcide when the Pope was calling for her head.

Language is always a problem. None of them spoke like what we do today. Best have them speak in RP modern so everything is clear.

I hear the film very graphic, with violent sexual scenes and one in Mary getting her period. Can anyone who's seen it tell me at what stage of the film the period bit is do I can be prepared?

I hear the film very graphic, with violent sexual scenes and one in Mary getting her period. Can anyone who's seen it tell me at what stage of the film the period bit is do I can be prepared?

You're fine with violent sex scenes, but want to be prepared in advance for the disturbing sight of a woman having her period?

I'm not fine with violence on screen (or anywhere else)and I tend to faint at blood scenes which is embarrassing and can be dangerous., But I'm desperate to see this film.
May have to wait and see it on DVD .

It is very graphic in general, explicit violence and sex. The period scene is early, in the first 15 minutes if I recall correctly. It’s by far not the most disturbing thing in the film, not ever top 10!

If you can’t do blood you will need to watch this film with the ability to fast forward, not for the period scene, there is a lot of blood in at least one other scene.

Thank you Chemenger.