DD already dealing with boys who think they can tell her what to do - she's 11

[BlingLoving]

And so it starts. DD and her friend (11) were waiting at our local bus stop to take a bus into town. Random boys on electric bikes and scooters, all wearing hoodies and balaclavas (it's an irritating thing around here) pull up and ask them if they want to come on the bikes with them, have a go etc. girls so no thank you. Boys ask again. Start to tease them for being scared. etc etc. Eventually boys get bored and leave.

And I'm thinking, "she's 11, and already she has to deal with boys who think they have a right to tell her what to do and to give her a hard time if she chooses to do something that is not what they want her to do."

Her and her friend handled it well, and I think they felt safe on a busy road waiting for a bus but.....

I don't actually know what to tell her. she's young, so she has to stay safe, but this is, I guess, why girls self police and self regulate. Already, although she's independent and getting out and about with friends, she's self regulating - on the bus, going to town, walking with a friend etc vs when Ds was the same age heading to the park and meeting friends there etc etc.

It starts young. I recall similar the summer after my 10th birthday.
There was a feminist book I read on it, can’t recall any details, but I do remember that it said that just when boys start to get more freedom and independence, the opposite happens to girls. They pinpointed ages 10-12 for this phenomenon. It’s usually parents worrying more about daughters than sons that mean girls get more talks about staying safe, are more likely to have an earlier curfew or to check on periodically, to be limited on how far they can go on their own or with friends. It was really interesting and showed the negative impact on girls self confidence and self esteem.

Reassure her that she did the right thing saying no. Tell her that she has a right to her own boundaries. Give her a few phrases she can use with confidence next time it happens. Make her laugh by giving her some cheeky/rude responses and then tell her not to use them (the point is to make her feel confident). Also probably a good time to talk about what to do if you feel unsafe.

@BlingLoving
I understand the sentiment behind this, and I know we often wish the world were different for our children, but to be honest, in your example I only really took from it that your dd and friend handled it well.
There will always be some people, be it children or adults, male or female, who try and manipulate others to their bidding. You are noticing now the male/female dynamic, which starts around this age, and is understandably one of the scariest due to the physical differences between the sexes, but in reality it’s everywhere in life. From the workplace to the playground those who are more able, intellectually and physically often “use” those less capable to manipulate a situation, sometimes for the good of all, more often than not for the good of a select few.

I do think they handled it well and I told her that. I also told her that I was sorry she was already having to deal with this sort of shit.

But I think the frustrating thing for me is that this is why her and her friends already choose not to go to the park, but instead take the bus into town, vs DS at the same age. She actually has quite a few boys in her extended friendship group so they do go out in mixed groups to the park etc, which is great, but it does frustrate me that she's already having to impose boundaries on what she does and where.

They asked and were told no. Asked! They didn’t tell them what to do.

I thought that.

Did the boys tell them what to do? It doesn’t appear so. Girls can be just as bossy as boys, and frequently moreso.

Can’t believe people are defending the boys! Reread the op. They asked were told no and persisted including teasing for their response. If you have boys tell them it might be ok to ask but they need to stop asking if they are told no!

🙄 Jeez do you actually believe this sexist crap? Boys hold all the physical power to harm or rape but God forbid a girl is ‘bossy’.

A bunch of girls were jumping off the pier this week, they asked my son and daughter to do it numerous times and when they refused they teased them over being too too scared. How is this any different?

Nobody TOLD your daughter to DO anything.

But girls are more vulnerable than boys.
However much we wish the world were different. Wishing doesn't make it so.
Therefore parents will be more protective or concerned to keep girls safe.
And girls going about in twos and avoiding the park makes sense and shews that they are aware of the realities too.
I'd rather they were safe than taking risks to prove a point.
Reminds me of the person who stepped straight out onto the zebra without pause or checking. They declared
I have the right of way.
Famous last words.
Is and ought are parallel lines running close but remaining separate.

They asked. Were told no. They kept asking. They gave the girls a hard time for saying no.

if they'd asked, and the girls had said no, and the boys had said, "ok, see ya", that would have been a different thing.

Yes, they asked, they did not tell your daughter what to do.

I love woeful ignorance. The point is that when she didnt do what they wanted, they didnt accept it. Which happens way too often to girls and women. A man or boy wants something from a girl or woman. And when he doesn't get it, he feels justified in giving her a hard time, calling her names, refusing to accept the refusal.

You dont have to say, "you have to do X" yo make it clear you believe the person should do what you want. And just because she was able to say no, doesn't mean these boys didnt believe they had the right to give her a hard time because she did.

But sure, bury your head in the sand and convince yourself nothing is going on here.

Boys experience more physical assaults than girls. I can totally imagine a boy being picked on by the scooter boys in the OP. Not saying girls don't experience a particular kind of abuse, they are objectified more often (and by adult men too), but boys aren't made of Teflon they can be hurt too

Of course they can. And the risks they face when out and about are no less real, albeit different.

But my thread isnt about the risks boys face. I could post about the fear of them getting into physical altercations. Or the fact that they aren't allowed in shops in groups. Or whatever.

But thats not what this thread is about. Its not even about threats faces by girls when out and a about.

Its about one aspect of misogyny that is faced by girls and women, and starts early.

But I was responding to a specific post, that said girls are more vulnerable than boys.

The point is that asking and teasing after being told no is harassment. And boys that do it to girls, turn into men harassing women on the street. The odd few may end up being dangerous stalkers. It’s not ok.

Girls are more vulnerable to street harrassment and stalking.
Boys are more vulnerable to physical assault.

They bad but different. Bringing up the boys different vulnerability is whataboutery

Nope, literally replying to post saying "girls are more vulnerable than boys".
Do you think I am defending the boys in the OP? Absolutely not!

God every second thread on here is about either a mum or a MIL or a friend (female) being intense and insistent and 'telling' the OP what to do and grinding them down to control them. I dont think this is a male or female thing, this is about people thinking they have a right to control others' behaviour.

There is another Andrew Tate type of influencer, one of whose slogans for followers is "Females are not friends". There are also multiple studies showing that male brains genuinely cannot comprehend the notion that males and females are equal human beings.

For juveniles, the most relevant is experiments where votes are required from mixed groups of students: The females choose evenly, between male and female candidates. But when there is an all female list, boys don't vote at all, explaining in bewilderment that they couldn't vote, because there was nobody to vote for.

For adults, an enormous study in Canada used comprehensive data on surgery, covering thousands of surgeons and patients over a long period. They studied orthopaedic records, for directly comparable common operations such as hip, knee and shoulder joints. Male surgeons selected male patients for priority of first appointments, first operations, and had better surgical outcomes with their male patients than their female ones. With female surgeons, the selection and prioritising of male and females was equal, and so were the outcomes.

There is a long-running programme on BBC Radio 4 called 'Great Lives'. The programme team invite someone eminent in various areas of expertise and with wide interests, to nominate another famous person from history, whose life they consider to be important:

During the many, many decades the programme has been broadcast, and out of all the hundreds of male guests, not a single one of them has ever nominated a woman.

By contrast, the women guests nominate equally between male and females.

Genuinely, and despite what they might think in theory, males simply cannot regard females as equal humans. Many of them may be kind and loving and care adoringly for their own women. Just as much, and even more, than they do for their own dogs. (After all, women are more multifunctional than dogs.)

@logiccalls that is truly shocking.

Indeed. No need to try and make this into a gender war.

In fact boys are more likely to be attacked than girls, but I understand your worries. I was the same!