62 million men

[Perfect28]

Apologies if there's a thread about this already, I can't find one. I'm so shaken by this story, for me it's the sheer audacity of it.

Exposing a global ‘online rape academy’ that is teaching men how to abuse women and evade detection https://share.google/8PCNKebmst0gw6yLc

Correction* 62 million visits, not men.

Depressing but not unsurprising. Many men are depraved animals at the core. They are purely driven by their own self serving instincts.

There needs to be far stricter monitoring, policing, laws and punishments imo. But the world is ruled by men, so it won’t ever be.

Equally terrifying and depressing

I find it horribly depressing. We keep being told it's 'not all men', 'women do bad things too', 'it's just the minority', 'don't make all men suffer for the behaviour of a few', 'why would you choose the bear' etc. Schools keep policing girls' clothing instead of boys' (and men's) behaviour. People keep referring to false rape accusations like it's as common as actual rape (despite statistics showing otherwise) and rapists continue to walk free for a whole range of reasons. Whenever something like this is uncovered that suggests these despicable men are more than just a tiny minority instead of acting those in power look the other way and/or make excuses. See also Epstein Files (yes his has got a lot of press but has anyone actually taken steps to question everyone involved and prosecute anyone possible? we all know the answer).

Correction 62 million visits, not men.*

A lot of men's only contribution to the conversation has been to clarify this point. [not talking about you OP]. Oh so it's tens of millions of visits? So it's 30 million men visiting twice a month. or 2 million so obsessed they are on there every day. There is no good mathematical formula for men in this.

Millions of men obsessed with rape and trying to encourage and learn and teach about it. So not only can they do it, but they can also make sure as many women as possible suffer.

Hackers everywhere, now is your time. Go forth and fuck them all up. Expose them, dox them, do whatever you can. Because we need to know who they are.

This news has me sick to the core, incredibly sad and worried about women everywhere and our daughters. I agree that this would be a very good use of hackers time. Is there a feminist hacker group? Who do we call? I’ve seen a lot more talk on Substack about it than here. And why isn’t it front page news?

I just don't understand why the story isn't getting more airtime. It's absolutely horrifying.

In "The Creation of Patriarchy", the author provides evidence to suggest that women were the first slaves. After reading that it bounced around in my head for ages.
"Women were the first slaves".
Women were stolen from competing tribes and kept as assets, we were easy to subdue because of the threat of, and reality of violence that we had no defence for. Also, once we had children in that situation, our determination and ability to escape was massively reduced because we needed to protect our children. This was when the idea of men owning women and children first established itself.
I myself have 2 DSs, and DH is not a bad person but more and more I fantasise about women only communities, you know, in a futuristic world where women have realised how little men actually care about us, and we have separated from them, established our own way of life, with appropriate defenses in place.
In that way, I think the trend towards not having children is a positive step because we are bound to the Patriarchy, and the horrors like this, when we have children we can't or won't leave. I could never leave my boys, but I know that if I didn't have them, by now I would be trying to live my life away from all men. As fewer young women choose parenthood, fewer women will be bound, and perhaps things will start to change. I hope that is what is happening.

What I want to know is what have cnn done with all this evidence that they must have. Is it with interpol? The UK police forces? Can we expect police and CPS in the uk to be rounding up and charging what must be at least hundreds of perpetrators?

Where are the appeals aimed directly at people who think they might be victims of this group?

Is anyone joining the dots?

I’ve watched the report - but while shocking it left me with more questions than answers. I hope what they’ve aired is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of the investigation.

The depravity that's available online knows no bounds.
As pp said a hack into the site and get details on the users and make their turn to be fearful of the consequences of their actions.

Horrendous. I think there are far too many men who don’t see women as real people but want a servile fuckable object. This is the extreme side of that. The nearest they can get to a silent living sex doll.
I bet there would be a huge market for bangmaid robots if the technology gets that far.

Has this been covered in the UK news anywhere? I don’t understand how the story features British women but it’s not been picked up by any of our newspapers/ news sites. Is this a suggestion it’s not credible or is it the patriarchy??

It’s absolutely fucking terrifying. Both the news itself and the widespread nature of this. So many men. And all the comments on social media from men just seem to be ‘it’s 62 million views, not individuals’ and ‘not all men’ etc WE KNOW, but we DON’T know which men it is!! Of course no one thinks it would be their husband, I’m one of them, I would never believe my own judgement on anything ever again if it was, but how many other women would say that too? That’s what makes it so scary, you’re potentially sharing your home, your bed etc etc wit someone who would do this to you. It’s appalling.

a futuristic world where women have realised how little men actually care about us

far too many men who don’t see women as real people but want a servile fuckable object

Sadly this seems to be true, and these attitudes seem to be more powerful and prevalent than when I was young (50-odd years ago). At times it seems like we are regressing - like men are resenting the advances that women have made in the workplace and in politics, and are compensating by trying to ‘put women in their place’.

The widespread availability of online porn obviously doesn’t help. Altogether it amounts to a toxic brew of pervasive and widespread misogyny. Women of my generation faced a lot of discrimination and struggles, but men did at least seem to have more respect and a stronger sense of responsibility for the children they created.

I wouldn’t want to be young today.

I'm so fucking angry and horrified about this. I don't know what to do with that rage right now but it's just fucking awful.

Feeling like joining Emma Doran on this one. Call a state of emergency and women just fuck off somewhere collectively https://www.instagram.com/reel/DXO_OgoiIEl/?igsh=MnRsY3V5ejQ3b3hk

Where is the chat on here even? Am I missing something?

I feel like burning everything down.

Unhelpfully.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNRqYsTQW/

Wtf!!

Oh so it's tens of millions of visits? So it's 30 million men visiting twice a month. or 2 million so obsessed they are on there every day. There is no good mathematical formula for men in this.

Snopes have confirmed that the 62m figure actually relates to the total monthly hits on a porn website where the CNN investigation started, not a 'rape academy'. The Telegram channel where these animals were swapping tips/videos thankfully had less than a thousand total members. CNN have updated their report to remove the suggestion that the 62m visits figure was related to this kind of content or a 'rape academy'.

I suppose it's a small comfort that we're talking about a few hundred and not a few million.

Thanks for the clarification @Kimura. It is important to be factual.

When I saw the 62 million, I wasn't surprised. I'm more surprised it's less.

And perhaps that speaks to something. As a rape victim myself, I know people can hide in plain sight. One of the perpetrators against me was initially defended by his girlfriend until the police found evidence of what he'd done to her when unconscious. She was adamant he was innocent. When he was finally sentenced an ex friend went to the press to say how surprised he was.

And that's the problem as a woman. We let people into our homes who could hurt us, even kill us that we have no way to defend ourselves against in many cases. And we just have to try and read them well enough to know it will be ok. When we read the 62 million stat, even though it turned out to be wrong or about the case of Giselle Pelicot, it opens up that box of fear again that we shut and hide in the cupboard. That terrified part of us that knows, deep down, that we don't really know if we're safe or not.

But ultimately that's no way to live. It reminds me of how much we stick our heads in the sand about death too. When a friend of mine was killed in a moped accident, I remember that utter shock that someone could be alive and well then an hour later, gone. But if we live our lives in constant fear that death will happen in the next hour, we're paralysed about it.

I don't know what I'm saying here apart from perhaps that I'm incredibly angry that even one man is seeking out this information. That VAWG is so minimised and rape is effectively decriminalised in the UK. I'm angry that men don't challenge other men on low level misogynistic behaviours. I'm angry that I was ever raped by the men who did in my life. I want to really make substantive change to sentencing and conviction and I bloody love Jess Phillips and hope that she will make substantive change to all this before she leaves that role. But I cannot live in fear of it every day. I've spent too much of my life feeling like that and it's no way to live.

Thank you @Lemonthyme for your wise input. I’m sorry it comes from first hand experience.

I am somewhat reassured by the clarification on 62 million views - although now worried that the amplification we have made to the CNN report has highlighted this crime (and how to do it) to a lot more men.

But you are right, we cannot live in fear. And we can teach our sons about respect, consent and kindness.

Don’t know how to process this. It’s endless. Epstein, Trump, Giselle Pelicot and now this.

Men don’t see us as people. How do I keep my daughter safe? I was raped when I was 20, derailed my life and I never really recovered. I feel numb. What can we even do?

I know it sounds bad but I am glad it is being exposed. Think how many years Giselle Pelicot suffered without even knowing why? I am certain there are worst things we do not know that are happening. The more power and autonomy women get the more we can find this out and our eyes will be open. I can only hope that helps future women to be able to identify good men.

I am so sorry for that 💐

I wish I had confidence that it would make a difference. I just don’t have the faith that anything will be done.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cnn-online-rape-academy/?fbclid=IwY2xjawRTehxleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZA80MDk5NjI2MjMwODU2MDkAAR4blOk5hZn6qB_q5X1F9Yi9ZxOZAE0SsVIogWkXeB8qdMHapZWojlbklpiJVg_aem_OiHr4XTs21cirCNL4-nrQg

62 million views/visits in a month to the whole site, which has over a 100 sections and is a generic hosting platform, so has any and all types of porn. Meaning the overwhelming majority is consensual and legal. Of which, a significant number of the visits will be by heavy, repeat users, considerably reducing the numbers of unique visitors to the site. Whether the ubiquitous and freely available access to porn is a good thing is of course highly debatable.
However in this instance, this specific and highly problematic content is 1 subsection.

So the likelihood is that the overwhelming majority of visits to the site did not view this specific content.

In addition there was an associated chat forum on Telegram, which hosted the discussions on drugging, how to commit the criminal sexual assault/rape etc. Which might be categorised as an "academy". That had 1000 members. Obviously that's 1000 members too many and this content and activity must be clamped down on, and laws punishing the publishing, hosting and viewing of the content, equivalent to content of indecent images of children, should be enacted. But 1000 is nowhere near 60 million plus.

And in serious matters like this, it's important that information and figures used are accurate and verified, otherwise it can become to easy for dissenters to dismiss all of it as fabrication. Which doesn't help anybody.

Agree we need to get facts right but the 1000 on that Telegram isn't the full story either.
The CNN piece says that the porn site in question has more than 20,000 videos of "sleep content" which have hundreds of thousands of views. Some 'eye check' videos surpassed 50,000 views. Those numbers stack up to a lot.

I agree, look at how few replies you've had here. In a forum which fought for a women's rights sections. I despair.

Men have got away with this behaviour since the beginning of time, but the strength of the patriarchy means that nothing changes, they just find new ways of hurting women, starting wars, killing people, and fucking the planet.