Interesting in lots of ways (tw CSA)

[AMansAManForAllThat]

This was thought provoking for me for a few reasons. Disclaimer, obviously it’s grim, it’s been found to break the law, I’m not arguing with that.

Usually it’s men up on child sex abuse related charges.
Children weren’t harmed or illustrated from what I can tell- Was the man who made anime books with sexualised child characters actually prosecuted does anyone remember? Challinor’s fiancee?

I guess anything relating to children is crossing a line, legally. I think I’m trying to clarify in my head why a lot of disgusting stuff is acceptable and this is not.

It’s not an area I’ve thought about, as in, I have no personal interest in exploring the boundaries of fetish, pornography etc. If anything, I’m in the ‘bring back kink shaming’ camp.

Perhaps someone else can articulate what I’m struggling with.

Guardian article

Yet another news item that quite frankly leaves me disgusted by the world we have created.
Just why.

I'm struggling atm by becoming aware over these past few days that the victims in the Epstein affair were as young as 8 and 9. I had assumed previously that they were possibly as young as 13 but naively hadn't realised that children so young were involved.

There's been a lot of talk recently about the " death of shame" . Who knew it would gave such a negative affect on society.

Totally agree. We have normalised some behaviour and desires that should not be normalised. I think as the recoil from shaming single mothers and putting women into Magdalen laundries and stealing their babies.

They’ve appropriated other people’s suffering, and used it to justify their own darkest stuff.

It is interesting. The report refers to the material creating an image in the mind of an adult engaging in sexual activity with a child - which of course is true of Lolita too (and even say of a book I have recently read investigating the Kincora Boys Home abuse scandal). But it also says this horrid book (my words) sexually objectifies children and I’m not convinced that is true of Lolita (though would be interested to know others’ views). And certainly that is not true of investigative journalism into Kincora!

Is the test what was in an author’s mind, or the potential effect on the reader? I rather suspect that there’s a kind of smell test involving both of these and that they are connected questions. The reality is we can all tell when material describing an illegal activity is gross and creepy and the author is getting off on it - and that other weirdos reading it will do so too.

In this case it all seems a bit strange and sad and I wonder whether the author herself was a victim - though her conviction appears entirely justified.

I also wondered if she has been groomed, perhaps as a child, to normalise this. I deleted my comment because it’s a bit a of a trope that women aren’t responsible for their own behaviours etc. But none the less I wondered.

One of the issues I have with thinking about this case, is allowing the images it creates in my mind. Not just tolerating them- the taboo is so strong my mind shrinks away from thinking about it.
It’s making it hard for me to compare with, for example, Lolita.

As I’ve grown older and read more appalling stories of abuse, my tolerance of role play and fantasy, ‘ok between consenting adults’ , age gaps etc has got very low. It feels as though it’s risky. Overton Window, and all that. And I suspect those driving the various practices need therapy.