Cabaret and the fetishised infantilisation of women

[Ricecrispiesatsix]

I saw Cabaret at the Kit Kat Club last night and despite it being an impressive show in many ways one thing in particular just did not sit right with me. In Sally Bowles’ incredibly sexualised opening number “don’t tell mama” she is wearing a baby bonnet, puts on a baby voice and sucks her thumb.

The whole show was very on the nose (masturbating to Mein Kampf being another example of that, and “if you could see her” which was a punch in the gut) but the casual paedophilic undertones just really creeped me out. Is it that the show was trying to shock audiences that have become less and less shockable, or is it that there is so much societal acceptance of fetishes now that even that one has been normalised?

Personally I don’t want to live in a society where boundaries have become so eroded that paedophilia and the infantilisation of women is just another fetish, no big deal.

(And, btw, anyone who didn't see Rob Madge as Emcee really missed out!)

No, I don't remember that either.

Made more so by the first time that the view moves "outside" into the fresh clean air. If feels almost wholesome in comparison to the entire rest of the film and then the camera pans out...

I think there are two songs, the money money song and the don't tell mama which are sort of interchangeable in that they both serve the same narrative purpose. So many productions use one or the other rather than both. The film version did the money money one which also sets up the seediness in a different way.

One of my favourite musicals. Incredibly powerful and uncomfortable.

I've watched the film and strangely that aspect didn't strike me so much
The bit I remember is Tomorrow belongs to me' so ominous.

All of that. @persephonia articulated it perfectly.
I went to see the film when it came out. I was 17.
The whole point was that the club was seedy and grubby, and the patrons somewhat grim. And who can forget Joel Grey as the MC. The film made a huge impression on me. For the early 1970s it was landmark stuff.

I've been wanting to go to the stage version. If I do, I'll report back after comparing the two.

The 90s version with Alan Cummings and Jane Horrocks is on YouTube(albeit a bit scratchy) and expresses the moral and physical poverty of weimar German nightlife. Its not glamorous, it's not done for the titillation of an audience that may think it's a bit of burlesque. You get the desperation of the characters. You get the same feeling from the nightclub scenes in Berlin Babylon (which is brilliant btw)

Personally I don’t want to live in a society where boundaries have become so eroded that paedophilia and the infantilisation of women is just another fetish, no big deal.

Well maybe try not buying tickets to these kind of shows then.
You are enabling it by funding it.

I've read the book and seen the film several times. This is not in either. There's nothing remotely resembling it, nor in the original musical.

I saw two shows in London at Christmas : The Producers, which featured Nazi flags and simulated gay sex, and then Cabaret : more nazi flags and simulated gay sex...

Sorry, but what did you think The Producers and Cabaret were about?

It would impossible and pointless to perform either without Nazi flags.

Must have been coincidental

Weimar into nazi germany. The meaning of sexual freedom is different coming out of a highly repressive, patriarchal, homophobic society and then going right back into one under the nazis. It can’t easily be mapped onto modern mumsnet prudery.

What do you mean by prudery? Images of women in the said atmosphere would be triggering. Not watching is still a choice and an understandable one.

Of course it's a choice but complaining there were Nazi flags in The Producers and Nazi flags and sexualised images in Cabaret is a bit like complaining there were scary dinosaurs in Jurassic Park.

It’s depicting inter war Berlin. The whole point is it’s seedy and debauched. The degeneracy in Berlin was arguably a factor in the rise of the Nazis. They stamped down hard on all that.

We thought it was one of the best things we’ve ever seen.

Had you not looked into it before you booked!? It’s not Moulin Rouge. It’s a dark challenging sexual piece of theatre. Totally agree with the pp it’s like going to Jurassic park and complaining about the dinosaurs!

Don’t Tell Mama is from the original stage show that became the film. Judi Dench was Sally Bowles in the London version. Her version is wonderful.
interwar years were about decadence, dancing away the night while ignoring the rise of fascism. Isherwood and many other people went to Weimar Germany because it was cheap and v tolerant if you had the money.
I saw the show a few years ago and it is brasher and less nuanced than the book, film or other stage versions. But it has to have that dark edge of the flames shock/grime. We have to know the Nazis are coming, Sally is Elsie and that the MC will end up on a concentration camp. The tension is that the songs are great but the characters all a bit suspect

It's not the same as the film, OP, but I'm pretty sure it's accurate in relation to actual clubs in the Weimar Republic. It's a historical piece - other historical pieces show subjects like slavery or capital punishment - we're not being asked to approve of them, just to understand that they happened.

I've seen a few different versions of Cabaret. Including the current west end one.
Most versions I've seen, that include the 'Don't tell Mama' song, have dressed the performers as schoolgirls which fits with the lyrics I guess?
I quite liked the decision to go with more obvious child-coded costume as I thought it stripped away the weird 'school uniform as acceptable/known kink' aspect and underlined the fact that this behaviour is about sexualising female children.

Well I've not seen the Producers so I agree but..that's not prudery. It might just be not having awareness of the productions. Also maybe theatres are deliberately producing anti nazi stuff at the moment because of their worries about the far right. Nazi flags in stage productions might be a thing moreso now as protest.

I have seen so many productions of Cabaret I’ve lost count. My favourite was the Donmar production off Broadway with Alan Cumming as Emcee- he was mesmerising.

yes it’s sexualised and seedy. No, there’s nothing paedophilic in it. This is just theatre lovies trying to shock. It sounds shit and be so disappointed if I’d paid those ticket prices.

You know The Sound of Music also has Nazi flags? Can't get much more wholesome than that.

It’s not “shit” it’s very good. It’s a whole immersive experience the audience are the people in the Caberet nightclub.

Jealous you saw Alan Cummings in it he’s made for that role