Bringing a newborn to university lectures

[Nimnuan]

I'm on a part-time university course (apprenticeship) and expecting a baby in the next few weeks. I'm not intending to take a break as any break would mean a year's delay. All classes this year my baby will be under 26 weeks old and breastfeeding.
I want to bring her to lectures with me because arranging childcare and expressing breastmilk will be much more difficult at such a young age and given the university's atrocious arrangements for expressing. Obviously if she cries or is disruptive I'll have to step out into the hallway.
I've just been told that I'm not allowed to bring my newborn to lectures because it would be a "contravention of rules and regulations". I've asked to be told which rules and regulations but haven't heard back yet.
Can you give me any advice about how to argue my case?

Most lectures are online but it depends on the course.

Sorry but that is a ridiculous suggestion.
I teach at a university and this just wouldn’t work.
It’s not school where the corridors are quiet in between lessons. There will be constant traffic and noise and therefore the door will be closed so it doesn’t disturb teaching.

The vast majority of teaching at university is interactive ( or at least it should be). If she’s not in the room and fully participating in the lecture or seminar then she is missing out.

Why do you mention reasonable adjustments/solutions when they are only for disability and the university have a pumping room but it doesn’t suit the op?

The op is one student of however many apprentices, all of whose work will be paying for them to attend. How do you think the university will feel about multiple complaints of disruption from the baby which will bugger up their relationship with those businesses who are their customers and who potentially are paying multiples of fees every year as they have more than one student attending across multiple courses?

Also if she can hear the lecture then the lecturer can hear the baby. Also the way students bundle in and out of lectures I don’t imagine it would be safe.

I suggested accessing online to be the best solution. She can access the material and the baby doesn’t have to sit in a germ infested lecture hall. This is what most universities would offer, that being said if she is registered as an international student it wouldn’t be possible as attendance is monitored by home office from what I remember. The university seem to be being awkward in this respect as it would be a fair solution all round and in line with what other colleges and universities seem to do.

This will 100% not be allowed. This is why they have rules and regs in place to allow you to take a year out so you can resume your studies. There are no rules and regs in place to allow newborns to be brought onsite to a bustling uni environment. Why? Because they aren’t insured if something happens to u or baby onsite. You are being very selfish here. Most mums take the year out to concentrate on baby then they’re in a better position to resume studies. Bringing ur baby will cause untold stress to you and ur little one for the only reason that you don’t want to take a years delay on your course. You have decisions to make - commit 100% to being a mum or pay childcare and commit 100% to uni. SFE will provide a grant for childcare. Unfortunately women can’t have it all when a baby comes and it pains me to say it and I hate that that’s the reality. I wish it wasn’t so, so in ur case you have to make the right choice for baby and not YOU. I’m qualified to say this as I work in a university.

Also the op has been refused before re accessing the course online. Which means surely she had to think it likely they would refuse again?

I know there are institutions that do online learning but one of the characteristics of going to uni is attending in person. Even the OU has in person modules.

I think the “online” thing is a bit of a red herring. I’m a lecturer, and we have a virtual learning environment where we upload all teaching materials, links to resources etc. we also use Teams as one of our main communications channels. OP could access all of these materials - in the same way a student who is absent for any reason could do. It wouldn’t replace attending lectures long term, but would allow her to keep up with the bones of things.

What we wouldn’t be able to do is set up each session as a live interactive class that could be “broadcast” and OP could join in, or record each one so she could watch a video of it after. The logistics to set that up are vast, and while we do it for eg the occasional guest speaker it’s just not manageable for an entire timetable. I’m also always mindful that eg my teaching slides have bullet points to remind me where I’m going, but what I say is so much more involved, not to mention interactive discussion.

Yes it would probably be a case of she needs to catch up with the recordings rather than it be live streamed, but I don’t see why they can’t do this unless there’s a heavy interactive element. But if there was a heavy interactive element she wouldn’t manage to participate with a newborn anyway so it’s possible that’s why it was refused before.

This is what childcare facilities are for. It's extremely selfish and inconsiderate of all other students to expect to rock up to lectures with a baby. Even if you take the baby outside you've already disturbed the lecture at that point 🙄

You sound amazing, OP. You are determined to overcome obstacles, raise your baby they way you want to, continue your graduate apprenticeship and put up with tiredness and inconvenience to meet your goals. I have no doubt you will always put the welfare of your baby first. But your resilience and determination are impressive, especially in the face of so many naysayers. Babies are incredibly adaptable at that age and being close to mum is best for them. You’re not a first time parent so you are going in with your eyes open.
I’m and employer and I’ve just put my developer through a 4 year BSc graduate apprenticeship. He’s super bright, no dependents and a fairly cushy job and he found it exhausting, so I really salute you.
Putting up with ten days worth of exhaustion and difficulty to achieve your goal, knowing it’s for a limited three months makes a lot of sense. I hope you can do most or all of your studies online during this period. If not, I hope you meet helpful and accommodating lecturers who will facilitate your goals. Women in so many countries nowadays and in the UK in the past often managed babies and work in tricky circumstances. It’s a university- an enlightened place of learning - not a building site. I really wish you well.

You’re Catastrophizing with the germ infested environment.Unless baby is immunosuppressed they’ll be just fine
Yes, If she can hear the lecture sat outside the lecturer will hear her and baby
The Minority who are advocating she take a newborn to uni are being obtuse. She is not entitled to take a baby to uni lectures. Her needs/wishes cannot be accommodated And she need a plan that works

My god did you eat a bag of sugar? all that gushing and praise it’s significantly unrealistic.
Uni isn’t a building site, nor is it a crèche for babies. It’s supposed to be for adult learners. Not babies. Not mums shushing baby will she attend lectures. The impact on other learners will be detrimental. She’ll make noise leaving, returning with baby. Baby will inevitably make noise(they do).
Doesn’t matter about her eyes,or how open they are. It’s a shared adult learning space, other students cannot be expected to compromise their learning because she doesn’t have adequate childcare.
A male student progressing through his degree is incomparable to a new mum accompanied by a baby. Not sure why you raised this?
Helpful & accommodating lecturer aren’t there to facilitate her unrealistic goal of a baby attending uni with mum. Lecturer is there for all students, to adhere to policies that will inc no baby in lecture hall. I’m not sure faux positivity is realistic approach

@Dumpspirospero there is a reason childcare exists

We don’t record lectures though - things like teaching slides, notes, links to resources etc are all uploaded to a digital learning space, but recording classes is a whole other ball game in terms of tech. Students are expected to come to campus and attend their classes.

I think people are thinking back to lockdown where online learning became the norm for a short period, and we taught live on Teams or other platforms where it was possible to record lessons. (Even then there are issues around captions/subtitling now we’re out of that crisis period if the lessons were being delivered online and recorded.)

I’m a university lecturer and this wouldn’t be allowed in my institution. There wouldn’t even be a discussion about it, it simply wouldn’t be allowed for a whole host of reasons (which people have already outlined). Your wishes don’t trump university policies or other people’s needs and rights.

It isn’t really you press record on capture software - it’s quite common at institutions I’ve worked at. Teams I imagine could also be set up.

We were using lecture capture for lectures years before covid. If you give your consent as a lecturer, it’s automatic. No need to press any buttons.

But lectures are interactive and students contribute

Yes, and lecture capture enhances the interaction. Students can actually listen and interact because they know they don’t have to make notes during the lecture. They can do that later. The automatic transcript also benefits those with accessibility issues.

Exactly. Lecture capture doesn’t replace being present for the lectures, it enhances it

Guess you're not familiar with GDPR?

Okay - we don’t use this, so apologies for my ignorance.

I agree that it’s wonderful to have a goal. But it’s not like her plan happens in a vacuum. She can choose to be exhausted and drive hours with a newborn and neglect her own recovery to focus on this goal… but she can’t affect other people because her goal is more important than theirs. You have no idea what is going on in the lives of the other hundred people in the lecture theatres and they deserve to get their full value from their studies as well.

I mean all my compliance training is up to date but admittedly gdpr is a minefield - there’s strict rules on how it is managed in the VLE though so that keeps us right.

Exactly this! No way you can bring a newborn to lectures, how would you actually think this would work! And if they allow it once, what next . . . I couldn't get childcare for my 5 year old so i'll just take them along.